May 19, 2022 / Mom &… Podcast Episode 71 / Guests: Margaret Ables & Amy Wilson, Hosts of What Fresh Hell Podcast

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Show Summary – “What Fresh Hell“

It’s as hard as you think it is.  –Amy and Margaret, talking about parenting. 

We think it’s the perfect phrase for not only parenting, but most of life.

That’s the quote of the show, but we talk about much more. From growing families to growing podcasts. We discuss becoming entrepreneurs, and creating our own content. Fans of Amy & Margaret’s podcast, What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood, will love hearing their show’s origin story, too.

More About Amy Wilson & Margaret Ables:

Amy Wilson and Margaret Ables are the co-hosts of “What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood,” a comedy podcast that is a 2022 Webby Honoree for Best Podcast: Kids and Family. Amy and Margaret are each moms of three. They launched their podcast in the fall of 2016, when their kids were between the ages of 4 and 14…now they’ve got tweens, teens, and one in college.

Before starting “What Fresh Hell” Amy wrote a parenting book called When Did I Get Like This?, toured the country with a one-woman show called Mother Load, and was a sitcom actor. Margaret started out in standup, wrote for PBS Kids and MTV, then became a senior writer for Nickelodeon’s “Nick Mom.”

Topics From This Episode

• Career pivots
• Parenting
• Podcasting
• College-age kids
• Blue Bloods (particularly, Season 1, Episode 14)
• Entrepreneurship
• Imposter syndrome
• Pandemic impact on parenting and on podcasting

Connect with Amy & Margaret

• Website, with links to all the things

Look, Listen, Learn

Susanne

• Where’d I Go? by Raquel Kelley
• Frances Haugen

Amy

• Also learning from Frances Haugen
• Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman

Margaret

• Selling Sunset
• Taylor Swift music
• Hippo facts

Missy

• Bad Vegan
• It Ends With Us by Colleen Hoover

Connect With the Mom &… Podcast

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Watch This Episode at our YouTube Channel

Musical Notes

Our delightfully happy intro and outro theme music, “We Will Get Through This” is performed by Young Presidents, and used under license from Shutterstock.

Transcript is created by a temperamental computer program. Expect 80% accuracy and 20% WTF?!

[00:00:00] Susanne: Welcome to the mom and dot that dot podcast. I’m Susanne Kerns, mom and dot.dot writer, LGBTQ and sex ed advocate. And today I am a mom to conference recover because you know, you’re gone for four or five days and it takes two weeks to catch up.

I still have not unpacked this bag. It’s still full of all the crap from two weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:00:21] Missy: I’m Missy Stephen’s mom and dot.dot writer, foster care advocate. And today fired up voter lesson. Be the fruit.

[00:00:30] Susanne: Under his eye, Missy.

[00:00:32] Missy: Yeah. We’ll just leave that there. Uh, today our guests are Margaret Abels and Amy Wilson, who you very likely know from their podcast.

What fresh hell, laughing in the face of motherhood. and I know them because I stopped Amy a thousand years ago after she wrote her book. When did I get

[00:00:49] Amy: List them, I believe like Blissdom

[00:00:51] Missy: Yes.

[00:00:52] Amy: seven or something a long time

[00:00:53] Missy: So we hooked up at a blister conference for any of you old school bloggers. You may know that one.

[00:00:58] Susanne: That is oh, G.

[00:00:59] Missy: Long time ago and Amy and Margaret are the co-hosts of what fresh hell laughing in the face of motherhood, a comedy podcast that is a 20, 22 Webby honoree for best podcast, kids and family.

Yay. Amy and Margaret are each moms of three. They launched their podcast in the fall of 2016 when their kids were between the ages of four and 14. And now they’ve got tweens teens and one in college, and one on his way.

[00:01:24] Susanne: you mean on his way to

[00:01:25] Margaret: on his way to college. Let’s be very clear.

[00:01:28] Amy: right.

[00:01:29] Susanne: not on the way out of

[00:01:30] Missy: That is a good thing to clarify. No babies on the

[00:01:33] Margaret: No, on the way, please. Let’s be clear.

[00:01:37] Missy: That is a good edit that carefully, Suzanne.

[00:01:39] Susanne: I’m leaving it in.

[00:01:42] Missy: Before starting what fresh hell. Amy wrote a parenting book called when did I get like this? The one that I read and then stalked her and toured the country with a one woman show called Motherload. She was also a sitcom actor. Margaret started out in, stand up, wrote for PBS kids and MTV, and then became a senior writer for Nickelodeon’s.

Nick mom. Welcome. Y’all.

[00:02:01] Amy: Thank you.

[00:02:02] Margaret: so much for having us.

[00:02:03] Susanne: so excited to have you here. And we’re so excited to finally actually touch base with y’all at mom two last

[00:02:09] Amy: I know.

[00:02:10] Margaret: that was fun. It was fun to be out and about

[00:02:13] Susanne: Oh my gosh. Humanism and peopling and hanging out on the 70th floor of the Intercontinental. I mean,

[00:02:21] Margaret: it was not for people with a fear of Heights. That’s what I will say.

[00:02:25] Susanne: Oh, yeah. Or your drum issues? Yeah, it was.

[00:02:27] Missy: I have one kid who doesn’t love the elevator and he would have hated it.

[00:02:31] Susanne: Oh, yeah. Good luck get out. But yeah, as MSI read your interest, you have really interesting and extensive career histories, but I’m sure that there have been some pivots along the way. Uh, specifically, once kids were introduced into the pictures. So I’m going to actually kick off with Margaret. if you want to talk a little bit about, where your career has gone along the years and what, how that’s been

[00:02:56] Margaret: You have seven hours? Uh, I’ll try to condense it. I started as a byte. Um,

[00:03:02] Susanne: did really

[00:03:03] Margaret: go all the way back there. Yes, I did a lot of bartending, a lot of waiting tables. Um, but really my career pivot was what led me to Amy here. Uh, I had been in Hollywood, writing for television, and then I got married and had three kids.

Quick succession about the time my Hollywood career was shit. I mean, it was always shaky, but it was getting very shaky. You know, reality TV had kind of come in and I was a sitcom writer. It was hard to get a job. And so just hustling really hard for every gig. And. Loving it, maybe I would have been loving it if I would have been, you know, winning Emmys and like living in one of those selling sunset houses, but I wasn’t.

And so I had been working at Nick mom, which was Nickelodeon’s spinoff channel for moms. and that was folding. Oh, across my desk truly came a video and I looked at it and I said, that’s Amy Wilson, who went to school with my sister, my sister and Amy back in the day were in an improv comedy group together in college.

[00:04:12] Susanne: Oh my gosh, what college

[00:04:14] Margaret: overlapped.

[00:04:15] Amy: Yeah. I went to Yale and, and so did Margaret sister, Kate and we were in the exit players, which was a true, we have Oscar nominees, Emmy winners, uh, famous actors. Yes. And also the author. Was it blood and bone? What is it? There’s, there’s a sort of a hunger games ask young adult author Lee. I can’t think of her last name.

Do you know who? I mean, I thought Missy nodded for a second.

[00:04:39] Susanne: We’ll put it in the

[00:04:40] Missy: know the blood and bones sounds really

[00:04:42] Amy: Yeah. Yeah. And she, she has sold millions of copies of books and she was also in the exit players. It was, it was quite an interesting group of people, including Margaret sister, Kate, most importantly, and may.

[00:04:52] Margaret: for our purposes. And so Amy and I had overlapped for sure over the years, because lots of friends in common, Amy was a sitcom actor. So I would see her on TV and be like, oh, there was Amy. And, You know, just overlapping. And then we both kind of were in the parenting space. As we say, I had a blog called short bed dictator for a long time.

Amy was doing her blog and we just kept kind of overlapping, but we didn’t really, really know each other. And so people often describe our podcast is like two best friends talk about parenting. And we have gotten really close from doing the podcast. But episode number one, I was saying, how many kids do you have?

What are their names? Are you married? Like we did not really know each other. And so my pivot was leaving kind of the entertainment industry, capital E capital. I, and trying to figure out as a mom with three young kids, like I wanted to stay entertaining people, but I didn’t want to be hustling around going to meetings and that whole world.

And so, uh, Truly took Amy out for wine and cheese and said, do you want to do a podcast? And she said, yes.

[00:06:04] Susanne: how many years later now?

[00:06:06] Amy: It’s that was the spring of 2016. And so it’s sick for six years since we, I think we actually recruited our first episode, like six years ago, this month. So.

[00:06:15] Margaret: Yeah, that sounds right. And we

[00:06:17] Amy: try this thing, this

[00:06:19] Margaret: Yeah.

[00:06:20] Amy: thing, give it a whirl

[00:06:21] Missy: And did you know how to do a podcast or we all figuring it out as you went?

[00:06:25] Amy: for sure. Figuring it out as we went, right. It was

[00:06:27] Margaret: Uh, we had no idea

[00:06:28] Amy: Googled how to do a podcast.

[00:06:30] Margaret: our early reviews were like, why do they sound like robots? And it’s. Cause I was in garage band, tried to like play with the equalizer button and make us sound better. And you know, my kid would walk in. I mean, it was. In the beginning though, I will say we did spend a lot of time prepping.

We did Amy and I are both planners, Amy, more so than me probably. And we did spend a lot of time, like, what do we want this to be? Why do we want it to be? So we were not just. Turning Mike’s on and being like we knew from the beginning, Amy brings in research. Our basic format is we try to solve a single parenting dilemma every week.

Amy brings in research and then I am kind of color commentary slash doubter. I’m the person who needs to be convinced by the research.

[00:07:16] Amy: Gimlet I Margaret, I don’t know about that. Yeah.

[00:07:21] Margaret: and that’s true. I’m like, eh, tried it doesn’t work. No, thanks.

[00:07:24] Missy: Just about to say like, do you ever have to come back and go, well, I tried it and it, it did work

[00:07:29] Margaret: Well, it’s just a lot of the advice is sort of like may and also the great thing is we each have three kids. So we also have the perspective of like, just make the meat what’s on their plate. It’s like, yeah, I have two kids that works really well for it. And then I have a kid with sensory issues and let me tell you, he will go all the way to the mat.

He’s not eating what’s on his plate. And for us, we talked about on our picky eaters episode for us, a big victory. Letting him be in the kitchen with people who have it on their plate. And like, I get your parenting books that you think that like, that’s not where it’s at, but that’s where it’s really at in my house.

[00:08:03] Susanne: Yeah. Supernanny isn’t going to work for particular situations. Oh.

[00:08:08] Amy: that’s what we bring to our listeners too, is we have, we each have multiple kids. So we have the perspective of like, it’s very easy when you don’t have a kid, who’s a picky eater. Like just, just make the meat it and they’ll eat it. Right. And then you have that one kid who’s

[00:08:19] Margaret: Very easy when you don’t have a kid at all.

[00:08:21] Susanne: Yeah.

[00:08:21] Amy: very

[00:08:22] Missy: That’s when I was the very best

[00:08:24] Amy: right.

Exactly.

[00:08:25] Missy: Yeah.

[00:08:25] Amy: also, I think we’re on the other side of this and, and you know, our kids are older now. So I have a kid in college. I have a 19 year old is my oldest. And I think, as we get, our average listener is, is, has kids a lot younger. And I think that’s why they listen. Right? They don’t, they don’t feel disconnected from our perspective.

They’re grateful for our perspective. Like, you know, I don’t remember how I got them to stay in bed once we switched to the toddler bed, but he’s in high school now and he’s not still

doing it, so it’ll be fine. I

[00:08:52] Missy: That’s what our pediatrician told us like a thousand years ago. And I can’t even remember which of the many things I went in and panicky about. I pretty sure it was potty training with one of mine. And he said, I have never sent one to college endeavors. Like all of my patients

[00:09:07] Susanne: I eventually figured this

[00:09:09] Missy: like he’s, he’s going to figure it out.

He just doesn’t want to. And he was right.

[00:09:13] Amy: Which doesn’t mean

[00:09:13] Missy: one of mine who didn’t know his colors. He

[00:09:15] Amy: It doesn’t mean there’s nothing to be done and you ignore a stuff when it occurs, but it just, it just means like you don’t have to fix it right now that your two year old doesn’t want to share two year olds. Don’t want to share that when they’re three, it’ll be different.

[00:09:24] Susanne: Yes. Well, now, Amy, we know a little bit about your background. You went to Yale, which I need some tips. I got a daughter who fell in love with Yale. We decided just to pop in there for lunch on our way from touring NYU, to going up to brown and , and her coach was like, oh, just check out Yale while you’re there.

And of course she’s like, love it. And I’m like, oh yeah, it’s a little tough to get into, but it looks amazing.

[00:09:46] Amy: I, I, I loved it there. And. Really like really found my people is very easy to be creative there. You know, you could get money from the different, the residential colleges, which are like, you know, the houses in Harry Potter or whatever, but you could get money from your individual one to put on a play.

So I was in a ton of plays and stuff while I was there. But you could always get money to, to found a club or to start a new improv comedy group or whatever. So you were only limited by. Imagination in a way that I think is kind of true now with the internet and Tik TOK and podcasts. And so, so I learned there, like have an idea and then make it happen, push the tables out of the way in the dining hall, after dinner and make a stage and do a play nobody’s stopping you.

And that was a great, great thing to learn at a young age.

[00:10:28] Susanne: Oh, I love

[00:10:29] Missy: that’s an amazing environment.

[00:10:31] Amy: Yeah, it was exciting. So then, so after, college, I went into acting, knew I wanted to do that and did it for a while. Had had a lot of success in my late twenties and early thirties. And then, come to have kids. my spouse was in New York and I was in LA.

So that’s an work for the, you know, getting pregnant and having a baby part

[00:10:49] Missy: It’s tough.

[00:10:49] Amy: and.

[00:10:50] Susanne: how long did that go on for? Or is it still going on for,

[00:10:53] Amy: The living apart. And we, you know, we know it’s like, okay, time for me to live in the same coast. So, um, no, I stopped doing that. And then unfortunately, I’d, you know, I’d put my sort of shoulder to the wheel in, in LA. So for a while, the phone kept ringing like cloud screen test for this and that.

And some of these shows went and stayed on the air for a while. It was a little hard to. Like I got a feeling that she was going, gonna work, but now I’m, I was pregnant with number one. I was pregnant with number two and then eventually they kind of stopped calling, you know, so

[00:11:22] Susanne: Uh, where, what can we see you in? What can we see you in?

[00:11:25] Amy: oh, well, people tell me all the time I did a bunch of stuff.

But the thing that people are most excited about was that I was in Felicity. I did, it had a couple of episodes of Felicity

[00:11:34] Susanne: I can see you in Phyllis.

[00:11:35] Amy: it was to see that. And I’m also on blue bloods. Margaret’s

[00:11:37] Margaret: Oh, that’s huge. That’s huge with my people, my, my in-laws and my parents. I always say, they always say, oh, Margaret is on a show with Amy Wilson. She was on blue bloods. That’s that’s our claim to fame in my family.

[00:11:53] Amy: Yeah. I’m one episode, you know, playing a mom who, who

[00:11:55] Margaret: think if you’re under 50, you’ve never heard of blue bloods, but it’s huge with

[00:12:00] Missy: But if you have parents, you’ve heard of it.

[00:12:02] Amy: You were so right. And when I did, when I did Bluebloods you’re right. All the women of a certain age, like older than me and were like, what is Tom Selleck? Like? But Tom Selleck, like if you watch the show, he, he plays the patriarch of a family and they have Sunday dinner. Like he clearly like shoots the whole season and two days like Tom Selleck, wasn’t there while I was doing like the case of the week.

He wasn’t on set.

[00:12:21] Margaret: Not going to tell my dad that.

[00:12:23] Amy: Yeah. Yeah. He’s a great guy. Tell him, I said he was great. Um,

[00:12:26] Missy: I remember asking you how you cried. Because you did cry so very much in that episode. And I’m like, how do you screw up? That has nothing to do with our show or your show or what we’re doing here today, but I still find it so fascinating that you

[00:12:40] Amy: I’m not. Yeah, I’m not great at it, but this one was like missing kids. So, and then you have to sort of, you know, just kind of go off in the corner and let go there in your head. That’s, that’s pretty, that’s pretty hot. As they say an acting class, there was a lot to draw from there. so anyway, so I started doing parenting content because it wasn’t working.

And I had all of a sudden had two little boys and my acting career had kind of, but I decided to write something because going back to college, I knew how to create my own material. So I wrote this show. That was called Motherload. And I did it off Broadway while I was pregnant with number three. And then I turned around the country with that while she was a baby.

And then that turned into a book. And so I became a parenting content creator and found a lot of, a lot of reward in it, for sure. But then blogging, you know, then Facebook killed the blog and I was sort of like, Hmm. Now what, wrote a novel that didn’t work. and then. Then somebody that I kinda knew is like, I think we should do a podcast

[00:13:36] Margaret: Then came the random missed phone call ever.

[00:13:41] Susanne: Is that how it went down, he just gave a call and he was like, Hey.

[00:13:44] Margaret: Yeah. I mean, seriously, I think I probably had to track you down. Like I probably had to call my sister and say, do you know how to get in touch with Amy Wilson? And I will say that my sister is constantly on our Facebook group threatening to write a book called what fresh hell, laughing in the face of motherhood, crying behind the scenes, where she tells the true story of me stealing her friend. And going on to podcasting success.

[00:14:10] Amy: She’s got some tales to tell I fear.

[00:14:12] Margaret: subject.

[00:14:14] Missy: I saw y’all took her to dinner recently

[00:14:15] Amy: Yes.

[00:14:16] Margaret: We were trying to bribe her, but she was like, it was a nice dinner, but I will not be bought. No, I’m still telling store.

[00:14:23] Missy: Has she ever been on the show?

[00:14:24] Margaret: No, but we definitely have something in the works, uh,

[00:14:29] Amy: Right. That’s a very special episode, a very, very special episode.

[00:14:33] Susanne: Oh, that’ll be

[00:14:33] Missy: She needs some guest spots.

[00:14:35] Susanne: had our brothers on last year for a father’s day. Spectacular.

Yeah, it was really

[00:14:41] Missy: yeah. We don’t usually have dudes on, but it was kind of

[00:14:44] Susanne: Yes. The only

[00:14:44] Margaret: Well, don’t need there sometimes every once in awhile.

[00:14:47] Missy: I mean, sometimes that’s the right expert for the moment or in our brother’s cases. It just

[00:14:51] Susanne: they were just convenient.

[00:14:53] Missy: Yeah. They’re kind of dads and.dot dot,

[00:14:55] Susanne: Yes, exactly.

[00:14:56] Missy: Yeah. So we may go back to some of the parenting stuff, but I really want to talk about. Your entrepreneurship, because you recently started a media company and I want to know how that came about.

And if, if you had told yourself even five years ago, Hey, I’m going to have a media company and be a business owner. Would you have believed yourself? So maybe Amy, you can start with that.

[00:15:19] Amy: mean, absolutely not. Right. I didn’t know. I wanted to do a podcast either that that’s all, and I feel so fulfilled by what I do every day, but it, it. You know, came from the sky and the business also, sort of like, do I, do I want to be a business owner? And I, and I will say, like, to my surprise, I have found running the spreadsheets for our podcast, and this is our inventory and this is how many advertisers and how are we going to grow our listeners.

And, I really, I really loved that stuff much more than I thought I would. And so the business became. Sort of, I mean, we had to sort of hold hands and jump like, yeah, we’re going to do this, but it was, it was a natural outgrowth. And I think we feel really motivated by the idea of like, we figured something out, like this is, this is working for us.

And there are a lot of, female created podcasts out there that are on the path and just not making money off it yet. And we think we can get them to a different place. And that’s, that’s really motivating. It’s exciting.

[00:16:15] Missy: Yeah.

[00:16:16] Margaret: I’m not a big, like the universe brings you. I it’s not my vibe, but I will say this. Partnership and the way it came about there something very like magic dust on it, because we always say I’m kind of idea cannon. And then Amy is like incredibly intelligent and business-minded, and like smart about how to actually do things.

And so I think for both of us, It wouldn’t have come about without both parts of that yin and yang without I, I tend to be the person who’s a little bit like it can be bigger. It could be huge. We could do live shows. We could do this, we could do that. And Amy’s like, I can actually figure out how to employ. The stuff. It’s not always that way. Amy’s had plenty of ideas and I’ve had plenty of strategies, but it’s just to kind of a magical com combination. And I do think that having done it ourselves, we. Have really been interested in the idea that there’s a lot of women who are creating really good content who are not monetizing.

And we talk, you know, having just come from mom too. I mean, you hear a lot about imposter syndrome and like, and I, I’m not always the biggest believer in imposter syndrome. I’m somebody who tends to be like, I got this, you know, but in terms of seeing myself as. Comedian. And, uh, I mean, I lived in a van like doing comedy for four years and the idea that I would like form LLCs and pay people and pay taxes for multiple bins.

I don’t know. I sometimes feel like that’s where my imposter syndrome comes in. Like a calculator. I’m a wacko, you know, but I do think it’s very, it’s been very illuminating to say like, Hey. We can do this and we should do this. And to some degree we were inspired, I think, by other people coming in and maybe offering us deals or trying to acquire us and saying like, you know, we’re already doing a really good job at this.

And rather than, and I think also having come out of Hollywood where it’s a lot of like going into rooms full of men and trying to be pleasing in very specific ways to make them give you money. It’s not the greatest feeling. And so. Creating an atmosphere where we’re able to build other people’s businesses alongside them, without that dynamic, it’s like a dream come true.

It really is.

[00:18:40] Amy: You’re right. We, we gotten used to, to existing without gatekeepers. I mean, I, I was from the acting world where it’s almost always know where you would literally hear, like you didn’t get it because you’re not quite beautiful enough, you know, or like, I didn’t quite or nothing or, or usually nothing, the phone doesn’t ring and that’s how you find out you didn’t get it.

So to move away from that world and for you, Margaret, the writers were all deflect.

[00:19:04] Margaret: Right.

[00:19:04] Amy: you just rewrite it? So it’s an outer space and static. You’re like, oh my God, I’m just gonna throw this out. Like, that’s a terrible idea and they’re not

[00:19:09] Margaret: I’d like it better. If the lead was a dog instead of a college age girl, you know, it’s like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

[00:19:15] Amy: then you’ll do it. And then they still don’t buy it.

[00:19:17] Margaret: and then they don’t buy it. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:19:20] Amy: Yeah. So to move away from the gatekeepers that we had dealt with,

and then to go back into that, like, no, no, no. Where are they gatekeepers for ourselves? It’s it feels pretty exciting.

[00:19:31] Missy: We talk about that a lot, that that’s one of the most energizing things about doing a podcast is we decide, we decide who we have on. We decide what we talk to them about. We it’s, it’s what we’re interested in. And sometimes that’s a very selfish feeling of like, this is for us, but. That’s really exciting after years of, I mean, neither of us were in the entertainment industry, but just years of working for other people to be able to call our own shots.

[00:19:58] Susanne: We had a lot of menopause coaches there for a while. Cause we were like, Hey,

I’m having some hot.

flashes. What, what do I want to know about? Yeah.

[00:20:05] Margaret: need some more information on this topic.

[00:20:07] Susanne: Our guests kind of trend based on what our life issues are at that point.

[00:20:12] Margaret: well, that’s the other great thing about podcasting is that you can, I mean, honestly, doing the podcast has made me a better parent. It’s actually taught me a lot of stuff. I say things all the time. Although I have to always ask Amy to remind me what it is. What’s the thing, Amy, where you wind down at night with kids who are like add it’s like it’s like a come down derangement syndrome or

[00:20:35] Amy: Oh, whoa. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Afterschool restraint collapse.

[00:20:40] Margaret: restraint collapsed, like the, these things that I’ve learned about it. It’s actually, and I think that’s, what’s great about podcasting from a real place of self is that you’re not just being like. Let’s analyze whether or not this stuff. It’s not, there’s not that remove. It’s very like I’m having this problem who can help me with it.

And then your audience who’s listening is on that ride with you. And they’re not hearing like, you know, good parents in France feed their kids, snails and the kids never complain. They’re hearing me say, like, I’ve got two kids this is working with, but I’ve got a kid who this is not working with. What else you.

[00:21:20] Susanne: Yeah. Exactly. Well, and that was going to be my next question, because you’ve learned a lot, obviously about the business side and, you know, running the podcast, but you’ve probably learned a lot from your guests as well. I mean, you’ve had hundreds and hundreds of interviews. and really curious if you have seen, especially recently, any common threads across your guests, as far as challenges that moms are facing.

That kids are facing. and some of the biggest lessons that you’ve learned around those.

[00:21:49] Margaret: I mean for us, I would say our podcast changed completely during the pandemic because the immediacy of those problems and trying to solve them. Huge for people. And we were talking about that and I know a lot of podcast struggled during the pandemic, but I think because we were dialed in every week and we honestly struggled with like, are we pivoting to this?

Are we going to dial in on this? We don’t really know what’s going on. So can we be presenting information in this space and what people really were craving? And I think what we were able to provide was. Conversations of like, what are we doing? This is scary. This is hard. Is there anything that’s working?

Okay. There’s a couple things that are working and we weren’t providing, you know, I mean, other than like what we picked up, doom, scrolling Twitter, we weren’t saying like, this is how long the incubation period is for this variant, but we were able to say like, Wait a minute, we weren’t ready for this.

We don’t like homeschooling. We’re not good at it. And being able to have those really active conversations during the pandemic, I feel like that’s, that was a huge learning for me.

[00:22:56] Amy: That’s what it is that they, that, um, this is as hard as you think it is. I think that was really what our listeners needed to hear and was what we needed to hear. So it was very easy to be genuine about that we were, we were fellow travelers and this is as hard as you think it is. And even harder for our listeners who have small children at home.

Um, and we had a guest on recently. I won’t say who it is cause it doesn’t matter what matters was the pushback. This guests, approach was more old fashioned. your spouse does something that bothers you, like what if you shouldn’t let it bother you, but they’re a good person. So they told her socks on the floor who cares and, and we got pushback from our audience.

Like, no,

[00:23:31] Missy: no,

[00:23:32] Amy: they need to pick up his dogs because if they need to do that. And, and, and I think over the last couple of years, yeah, we have Mo move more towards that. Like, if there’s something that needs to be addressed, there are productive ways to address it and not productive ways to address it. But hearing maybe if he just didn’t worry about it so much, it wouldn’t be a problem is not really what our listeners want to hear or.

We want to tell them it isn’t like stop overthinking. It is not a useful solution to almost any parenting firm that comes along, especially when you were told, overthink it in the.

[00:24:00] Margaret: And one thing I will also say, and trying to avoid being cloying and, and, and, and sort of facile about it, but So . We have three shows. We do a show where we answer questions. We do our kind of flagship show where we solve a dilemma. And then on Fridays, we talked to an expert about a topic.

And one of the other things that’s been really interesting to me in talking to this hugely diverse range of people we’ve talked to, you know, parents who are first gen. Immigrants and how that affects raising their kids. parents of children with special needs, complicated medical needs and. we were sort of worried, I think in the beginning that are these topics limiting, are they for everyone?

And like the universality of the challenges that we’re dealing with has been really interesting to me. Like how, how much the struggle of, first-generation immigrant mom parallels the struggle of a mom who maybe had an ACEs childhood, adverse childhood experiences. Who’s trying to change the way that they raise their children, but also bring in some of the traditions about their own life and childhood.

And that’s been really interesting and kind of inspiring to see is that. While there is a hugely diverse range of opinions, obviously, and, and political views. I think we’ve been able to maintain a really diverse audience. Who’s listening from a lot of different points of view and find a common ground that I think has really spread.

[00:25:26] Susanne: Yeah. And what a gift to give a platform to some of those issues that maybe there isn’t as much empathy or understanding about and to, to have those conversations because yeah, I do think that. Even though it may not apply our day-to-day life. It probably applies to a friend or a teacher or a coworker or someone.

And you want to be more well-versed about it, or just more understanding or just a better

[00:25:50] Margaret: And the, and the empathy that applies to a child who is learning the language or a child of a different race, or a child who is differently, abled applies to your kid who is really bad at soccer and not making the team like the parallels are just very. Accessible, I think to people in a way that that is really useful.

[00:26:12] Missy: I love looking at motherhood that way that. We all have very unique children. We are very unique people who we’re all coming at things from our own experiences, but it is universal and it is as hard as you think it is. I feel like that’s going to be the quote from the show. This is as hard as it feels.

And it’s nice to have people to talk to about that.

[00:26:34] Amy: yeah.

[00:26:35] Susanne: Ah, that that really needs to be stitched on a pillow, for sure. Do you have that trademarked? That is like,

[00:26:40] Margaret: No.

[00:26:41] Amy: up.

[00:26:42] Missy: It might be on your next shirt

[00:26:44] Amy: this comes out. Yeah. We’re always looking for new merch ideas. That’s a good one.

[00:26:48] Susanne: Yeah, that is a very good one because, oh, doesn’t it. I mean, I feel my shoulders, like kind of who, when you say that, I mean, just about literally anything that you could encounter, that anything your kid can manage to bring home from school. Oh my God. Yeah, my kid, they was someone lit the bathroom on fire.

Again, I’m at his school. And then when he was standing to get on the bus, someone was handing out Bibles and stuff to all the kids getting on the bus. And it’s like, every day is just like a weird thing. Like I could, I could not have even thought that up when I sent you off to school today that those two things were going to happen, but it was just like, yeah, that is it’s as hard as you think it is, but it’s just

[00:27:29] Margaret: And it’s

[00:27:30] Amy: You’re not.

[00:27:30] Margaret: the, the title I. The title of the show. And when I pitched Amy and because my mom loved that expression, what PowerShell, It’s a Dorothy Parker saying, but it, it encapsulated for her.

Like, you know, she had four kids and like you open the door every day. It’s like, what fresh hell is this? Is it Bibles at the bus stop? Or is it COVID in our house? Or is it a vomiting kid who you never saw coming? Or is it the kid who got expelled? Because they did something dumb, you know? And now everybody thinks that you’re a terrible parent.

It’s a lot of what fresh hell parenting.

[00:28:07] Susanne: Oh, yes. Oh my gosh, that reminds me tonight. We’re doing a live recording once a month. We do a Facebook live recording of the podcast. And for teacher appreciation week, we’re having, my two kids, favorite teacher from grade school, um, on there, I think they’re both gonna make an appearance and popped in and be like, hi, Ms.

Forest. But I mean, I mean, talk about the fresh hell. I think about teachers all the time when I’m

[00:28:31] Missy: Well, and especially now,

[00:28:33] Susanne: our

[00:28:33] Margaret: we did their job for a couple months, it’s like, oh, Bow down.

[00:28:37] Susanne: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:38] Missy: And I didn’t do their job. Like my children were, my children were at home doing school and I was at home going, good luck. Good luck to all of you.

[00:28:50] Amy: .

at my daughter’s grade school. They have new sort of, you know, materials. I come find out about our school and sort of, you know, sizzle real video and, and yeah, just new found respect watching this video just yesterday. Cause of crispy. From these were in the classroom, they were home on zoom.

And then we’re like, Ooh, that was tough. And then we sent them back to school, watching these teachers that I’ve known for a long time. Cause they taught all my kids like leading, like calisthenic exercises with a mask on another kid with a mask on teaching, like just, just the extra mile that they’ve had to go PS since the kids have gone back and are still right.

It didn’t didn’t end for them when lockdown ended

[00:29:26] Susanne: Oh,

[00:29:27] Missy: No,

not at all.

[00:29:28] Amy: just beginning.

[00:29:30] Missy: And there’s expectations that weren’t there before and demands and

[00:29:35] Susanne: I was just listening to Jill Smuggler’s new podcast. and she had Alison Slater, Tate on who, I guess now does college coaching. I didn’t realize that. Um, but there’s this term that they have for kids who are going into their freshman year at college. Now that’s fearful freshmen. Because they just have not had to have like any social skills or interact with people or be responsible for themselves.

Like those would be usually those final two years of high school would be the time when they were practicing, you know, going and driving off without telling their parents where they’re going or making

[00:30:10] Margaret: a job,

[00:30:11] Susanne: to the store. Yeah. I get a job and they’re like, oh my God. And I don’t know how long it’s going to take for that.

I feel that with the kids at school, to everybody that I know there’s a teacher or a principal or whatever, it’s just like, they are fearful. They are just like these wild little squirrels that someone shook up in a bag and then let go in our school. And like, I don’t know. I

[00:30:32] Amy: We had,

um, Mr. D on the show, you know, he has, he’s a teacher and a standup comic. He was, he was a fabulous guest and he, and he was so funny. My favorite kind of guests, like funny with actual, really interesting thought provoking takeaways. And he said that in every kindergarten class, you know, usually there’s that one kid who, when you tag them, You know when they’re there it in tag, like, well, I’m not going to play anymore.

Like, there’s some reason that their ankle hurts and they have to quit. But the point of the game where they become it or something, doesn’t go their way. He’s like I have 35 of those. No, I went from one to 35. They don’t know how to share. They don’t know how to be it. They don’t know how to line up. And so his whole teaching had to pivot to how not to be fair all as opposed to, you know, how to write your name.

It’s like we had to dial it back for a while and learn some basic skills.

[00:31:17] Susanne: basic human skills and

[00:31:18] Missy: think about like at, for us, we joke all the time. Like I forgot how to people. And I said it mom too. Like, I forgot how to conference. It had been awhile since I had been in that kind of environment, but we’re adults and we have a lot of skills to call on and we have

[00:31:34] Amy: previous

[00:31:34] Missy: deep background in history and they’re little kids.

They got nothing. A lot of them don’t remember life before this, so

[00:31:41] Margaret: Dallow skill pool. Yep.

[00:31:43] Missy: Yeah.

[00:31:43] Susanne: Oh, So now, since we’ve got a bunch of federal kids coming home after school, every night, we’re dealing with all the fresh hell, like what are your coping mechanisms for other moms out there? Like, what are some of the best things either you’ve learned from your experts or just from momming? We talk with tons of people who are like, you need to do gratitude journals.

And then I, they told me that, like, they told me that like 40 times, and then I finally was like, okay, universe, I get it. I get it. I supposed to be grateful.

[00:32:08] Margaret: I mean, I’m all for a gratitude journal, but I mean, the biggest thing that we always say is don’t let the lessons of the pandemic pass you by. So your kids do not need to be supervised all the time. They can be bored, they can play alone, they can wind that they’re bored and you can not fix it. Uh, and so for me, The race to no offense, Amy, the racy yell and Harvard and the, oh my gosh.

We need to be playing 10 sports and going to Mandarin camp in the summers and making sure we’re building rocket ships in all of our spare time. And also starting an orphanage somewhere. I let so much of that stuff go. I wasn’t super into that stuff to begin with. So it wasn’t that hard for me, but my kids have a ton of unstructured downtime and video games fill in too much of that space probably.

But. I have my own life. And we do a ton of things with our kids. We take them to the farm. Sometimes we travel, we have lots of family activities that they have to be present for every one of them has one activity that they participate in. Although actually there’s probably not even true right now for one of my, but whatever.

And I just got off the hamster wheel of like, there’s a race to somewhere during the pandemic and I’m not getting back on it. I like the downtime. I like the Saturday sleeping. I was just driving spring in my town, driving through and passing the 800 fields filled with 8 billion kids. I don’t have a single kid who plays a sport.

I’m fine with it. And you know, I don’t know, maybe my kids aren’t going to yell, but I. Ah, that’s the pandemic lesson for me is if you’re passionate about something, follow it. I have a kid who’s interested in animation. He spends a lot of time on the computer, like fooling around with animation stuff.

That’s what we’re doing at my house. And we’re not getting back on that hamster wheel. After the pandemic,

[00:34:01] Susanne: Yeah, our extracurriculars are pretty much just chilling. I just.

[00:34:06] Margaret: is a great extracurricular at our house.

[00:34:09] Amy: Yeah,

[00:34:10] Susanne: we’re going to have

[00:34:10] Amy: we’re leaning back in a little bit on that stuff. Yeah. You know, you kind of you’re meant to, but I’m hoping that there will be a, a general lowering of expectations. Cause how could there not be, you know, my oldest kid, got into school, explaining on his college application, how the thing he wanted to do didn’t happen cause of the pandemic.

Ms. Council was like, just read it anyway. I just say you wanted to do it. And then you didn’t and

[00:34:29] Susanne: Yeah,

[00:34:30] Amy: that was at least for him.

[00:34:32] Susanne: I think there’s a lot to be said to them. I know I’ve, we’ve learned all these valuable lessons about like, You know, not having those high expectations or chilling out or self care. And then I just feel like the college application process in particular is just the antithesis of that is just like, no, I want you to show me how hard you have worked and how much sleep you haven’t got it.

Like, just be amazing. Incredible.

[00:34:58] Margaret: I will say I don’t have kids in high school. I do think that makes a huge difference because I think high school, that pressure starts to come

[00:35:04] Amy: It’s really hard to avoid, but you have, I would say you have time, like, like rest for the climb, right?

[00:35:11] Margaret: That’s, that’s the mode we’re in word-based camps taking a lot of now.

[00:35:15] Susanne: Unfortunately, our climb time was during the pandemic. I remember when my daughter, she got nominated for the honor society last year, she got in this year, but last year it said she didn’t have enough volunteer work. Literally, what was she supposed to do? What was she supposed to do?

I was just so disgusted. So maybe that’s left a bad taste in my mouth, but, but yes.

[00:35:35] Missy: you know, the media is right back to where it was. I think in our faces every day, that gets college acceptance season. So every day you’re seeing the story of, uh, you know, 1500 sat student with the unweighted four point GPA, blah, blah, blah. And she got into. so there, they’re throwing that at you, and it’s really hard to filter it out, but to know there are a lot of schools and there’s a place for everyone and it’s, it’s going to be okay.

It’s going to be

[00:36:06] Margaret: Frank Bruni has a great book called where you go, isn’t who you’ll be. And I recommend it. I read it a long time ago when my kids were little and I was like, yeah, this seems to be how I want to live for sure.

[00:36:16] Susanne: Yeah. And I think I’ve mentioned a couple episodes ago about the, um, What is it? College essay, guy podcast. He does such a nice job. It’s not all about college essays, but it very much is just like the settle down y’all and they, and they bring on a lot of admission officers to try to just be like, we’re, you know, we want the essays to be about like, just they’re nice people.

They were even one of the, I guess one of them that went viral was the, it was a reference from, the high school, customer. That was talking about how this kid knows all the custodial staff’s names and like, and they’ll see him sometimes is like, if he’s walking by a classroom and there’s no one in there and the lights on he’ll turn it off or like, or he’ll pick up some garbage when no one’s looking or whatever.

And they’re like, they’re like, that’s the kid we want. Like, that

is

[00:37:02] Margaret: every kid is now going to start being like befriending their

[00:37:05] Susanne: Yeah. Hi, Joey.

Maybe, I mean, if that’s the worst that could happen now, everybody’s finally not being assholes to the help at the school. So,

[00:37:16] Margaret: yeah.

[00:37:17] Missy: Yes. That’s one of the things I do, things come out of the pandemic for, if you’re looking at parenting is that we really do want to raise people who have this emotional health, because this pandemic isn’t the last crazy bad shit thing. That’s going to happen in our lives.

[00:37:34] Susanne: Uh,

[00:37:35] Amy: We wanted them to have resiliency and like they’ve, they’ve all got a little more grit than they did a couple of years ago.

[00:37:40] Susanne: Yeah. So Amy, how do you, how do you deal with the fresh Hellness?

[00:37:45] Amy: I, um, during the pandemic I started doing yoga. I actually did Zuma yoga and, uh, and still doing it. I was doing it religiously four times a week. Now that real life has creeped back in. I’m doing it like once a week. But my instructor is a friend of mine she’s in Pennsylvania, so I’m almost never there in person.

And, that has really. Helped me, including the part at the end where you just sit in community with a couple of strangers and take some deep breaths and let it out all the steps of the last couple of years. That has definitely gotten me through.

[00:38:16] Missy: That’s my favorite part of yoga. That’s why I don’t do it super regularly right now, but I have at times done it really regularly and I do it for the end,

[00:38:26] Amy: exactly.

You earn that last five minutes. We have pulled the blanket and just, yeah. Yup.

[00:38:32] Susanne: I always love there’s there’s at least one person that starts to snore and there’s one person that farts, usually if you’re in the actual classroom,

[00:38:40] Amy: you’ve really relaxed, right.

[00:38:42] Missy: right.

[00:38:43] Susanne: Sometimes

[00:38:44] Missy: arresting, arresting. All right. Well, we are pushing it on time. And so before we hop into look, listen, learn, where can our listeners find you? Obviously they can look for your podcast. What fresh hell, where are the other, but good places to find y’all.

[00:39:00] Amy: our website is what fresh out podcast.com. Um, he can find, you can search all our episodes on there and we’re on Facebook and Instagram at refresh outcast. And we’re on Twitter at what fresh pod, because Twitter is like that. We need, if you need a fewer letters,

[00:39:15] Susanne: Yep.

[00:39:16] Amy: Tik TOK. We’re also on tick-tock we’re starting to put our, clips from our episodes upon picked up.

We’re also what fresh hell cast on Tik TOK.

[00:39:24] Missy: Yeah. We’re just starting to try to put some clips up as well.

[00:39:27] Susanne: We’re so old. Nothing makes me feel older than trying to figure out anything on take

[00:39:31] Missy: You made a great video though. Yesterday. Suzanne, did you put it up?

[00:39:35] Susanne: No,

[00:39:36] Missy: Okay, cool. We’re getting there.

[00:39:38] Margaret: two parts. You’ve got to make it. And then you got to put.

[00:39:40] Amy: Right.

[00:39:42] Susanne: and something was bugging me about it. I was like, I was not ready. Oh, I’ll throw it up there and try it last time I threw something up there. People got ugly about it. We do. Oh, we had a thing about, voter suppression, and I made the mistake of putting a hashtag on it that people troll. And so, yeah.

[00:40:01] Missy: ’cause normally, you know, I see it, maybe two other people see it and, but this one hit big or for

[00:40:07] Margaret: At somebody.

[00:40:07] Missy: that,

[00:40:08] Susanne: I know it’s was like, why are there thousands of people watching it? Oh, because they’re

[00:40:12] Missy: for that hashtag and they all came to say that it was BS,

[00:40:15] Susanne: Yes,

[00:40:16] Amy: A lot of people’s a lot of time on their hands.

[00:40:18] Susanne: no shit. Oh yeah. Anyway.

[00:40:21] Missy: who is, I don’t even follow hashtags pertaining to things like our show, you know, like I need much more to do.

[00:40:28] Amy: My name

[00:40:30] Missy: Yeah.

[00:40:30] Susanne: Oh Lord. I never thought that.

[00:40:32] Missy: Yeah,

[00:40:32] Susanne: All right. Are we ready? Missy?

[00:40:34] Missy: I think we’re ready for look, listen, learn. And if you’re here for the first time listening, thank you for being here. And we close every show with just a few minutes of what we’re reading, watching, listening, to buying, whatever it is, something that is making an impact on our lives right now.

And something that we think you want to know about it can be serious, or it can be completely ridiculous. And we don’t like to make our guests go first. So, Suzanne, what do you look, listening and learning.

[00:41:00] Susanne: All right. Well, I have been looking at, uh, we have, uh, I, one of our former guests, uh, Raquel Kelly, who’s the mom goal. She was episode 32. Uh, did this super cute. It’s like a little, not a pop-up, but a peek-a-boo book for moms. It’s so cute. Um, so it’s may is mental health awareness month and a portion of the sales go to mental health America, but it’s like very, like, it’s got like the little

[00:41:29] Amy: Oh,

[00:41:29] Susanne: slaps in it, but it’s all about the mom.

It’s not for the babies.

So it’s was like, oh, there’s my pants that don’t fit anymore. And like, there’s a kid being annoying in the toilet.

[00:41:40] Margaret: Now.

[00:41:41] Susanne: But, yeah, so there’s all kinds. It’s such a cute little parenting gift. Um, so yeah, that’s and then, like I said, for a good cost, the portion of sales go to mental health America, and let’s see what I learned and you’re going to have to help me pronounce this Francis ha.

Hogan Hogan at the mom to conference, uh, was on one of the panels. And she was the Facebook whistleblower who disclosed all those tens of thousands of internal Facebook documents about how they know how dangerous and addictive social media is to teens brains. And the fact that they. Fix it or make it much better.

And they have the power to do that. If we just demanded it and seeing how Facebook’s audience is like us, it’s just a bunch of middle aged women, moms hanging out there. So, um, I think we needed to start demanding it. And I’m going to start listening to some more podcasts with tips about how to limit time online.

I don’t want to, I’m kind of. I’ve got Jess Lee, he back here going like, no, you’d let them don’t control and monitor all this stuff they’re doing, but I feel like I don’t want. See what they’re doing. I feel like they need to have some privacy about what they’re writing and what they’re communicating, but I want to just like, have a cap on the time.

So like, okay, you get an hour of tick talk today. You can manage that. Like, if you want to binge it all at one hour, or if you want to space it out, whatever. But so then it just like cuts it off and I need it for myself too. I got. I got stuck in Instagram reels for way too long yesterday for nothing. You know what it was, it was that stupid Johnny Depp trial. Oh my God. I just was like, uh, but anyway, but along those same lines and I’m just going to pimp out everybody from the mom to conference here. Um, Catherine Perlman, who we just love and this doesn’t come out until July. So you’ll probably be hearing about this again, but it has a book coming out called, uh, Uh, child’s guide to digital responsibility, safety, and etiquette, and it’s called the first phone.

Um, so really excited for this to become available. I feel like I needed this years ago, but that made me think that maybe she probably knows of some type of app or system or whatever that can do that capping thing. So I’m hitting her up right after we get off this.

[00:43:57] Missy: All right. What about you, Amy?

[00:43:59] Amy: Me. Um, I wanted to say I’m learning the Francis Haugen. I, I went to their presentation at mom 2.0. I learned that really got me mad is that, you know, we, as moms spent a lot of time, like being. With ourselves, like, oh, my kids are on screens too much. I guess I’m supposed to do something about it, but I don’t know.

I try something. It doesn’t work. I’m just gonna feel bad about it, I guess. And, and they made the very clear point that yes. And that’s how Facebook wants it. And the other platforms, as long as the answer is you fix it. Mom, You know, start being a better mom and that it’ll work. They know that that won’t work.

They know the algorithms more powerful. They know how to, to alter that if they want to, they won’t. And as long as it’s on moms to fix it and feel bad about not being able to fix it, nothing will change. I thought that was a, a very pro mom and eye opening way to look at what needs to happen.

[00:44:51] Susanne: What was

[00:44:51] Amy: that’s what I’m

[00:44:52] Susanne: they called? I mean, they actually have. it’s called the incremental minute. I think it’s like they try to build everything into their system that makes you stay that next minute. And I mean, it is by design, it has a name. It is something that they build their business around.

So yeah, we, I mean, it is good to take a little of that guilt off our shoulders. I

[00:45:13] Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Cause you just were saying like, I spent so much time on Instagram reels yesterday. I don’t even know why look. Well, I know why was he algorithm? Right. We need to get bad about it. Sort of feel

[00:45:22] Missy: And it just kept showing you Johnny Depp information and you couldn’t look away.

[00:45:26] Susanne: you thought this was interesting.

[00:45:28] Amy: So that’s my learning. And I’m reading about a little show and tell this book is called 4,000 weeks time management for mortals by Oliver Berkman.

And I got it from the literati book club. And, um, it’s about grasping the limited amount of time that you have and sort of moving away from. Standard productivity advice, which makes you more frantic, but not necessarily more effective, how to accept the limited nature of your time and what you can do with it is a lot better than just run faster.

And so that’s what this book is about and I’m finding it very useful.

[00:46:06] Susanne: okay. I need to check that out. That sounds like it’s very much not that oh, y’all have the same 24 hours. It sounds like. No you for the hours that you do have, am I understanding that right? The here’s how to

[00:46:16] Amy: Yeah. It’s it’s it starts from like, yeah, you have less time than you think you do not more time than you think you do. And,

[00:46:22] Susanne: I love that.

[00:46:24] Amy: you know, we, we feel the desire to overachieve and, you know, same thing, you know, like there’s a reason you feel this way and it isn’t that you’re not working hard enough. It’s that there isn’t enough time.

So what are you gonna do?

[00:46:34] Susanne: Oh,

[00:46:34] Margaret: It is on-brand me. That is very on brand for you. That book. Um, I am going to start with my luck, which is new season that are selling sunset. No shame in my game. It is my favorite show. It is, I just saw someone describing it on Twitter as women dressed as baby dolls, selling real estate. And it is like,

[00:46:57] Susanne: I’m still

[00:46:58] Margaret: think like you cannot this level of fashion wackiness, like it cannot be sustained.

Like we’re in season four and the outfits are like, it’s like a Tuesday and they’re dressed in like a bikini with like a wedding cake bottom and like a giant fascinator. I’m just. Where can we go from here? Like the outfit started, it’s kind of started as like women’s selling real estate, but then it’s become like, obviously they’re getting provided fashions. They look like Gwen Stefani, backup dancers on a T I just, I can’t

[00:47:34] Susanne: Oh, my God.

[00:47:35] Margaret: then they’re selling these houses and I will say it makes me feel so much better about not being able to afford anything because the houses to me are increasingly like gigantic Costco’s filled with Ikea furniture on like a precipice.

I’m like, well, who would even want this house in there? And it’s $27 million. And having lived in LA, I look at every single piece of real estate and I’m like, wait till it stops raining. And the rats come in.

[00:48:01] Susanne: Oh, God.

[00:48:03] Margaret: The rats are coming. Uh, so that’s my shower. I love it.

[00:48:06] Missy: $27 million rats.

[00:48:08] Margaret: relationship going with it and just Google.

I mean, don’t get on the algorithm. You’ll be there all night, but Google selling, sunset fashions. It’s just the things these people are wearing. It’s incredible. Um,

[00:48:22] Missy: Yeah,

[00:48:22] Susanne: Okay. I know. I’m like, dude,

[00:48:24] Missy: it.

[00:48:25] Margaret: it’s terrible. It’s what my sister would call a delight mirror. It’s like.

[00:48:29] Missy: It’s my favorite kind of show.

[00:48:31] Margaret: completely morally indefensible. And yet it’s delicious. I don’t know.

It’s kind of a folding laundry. Shelly. You’re not sitting

around with the whole family watching it. It’s definitely a like, while you’re organizing, you know, your receipts or

[00:48:46] Susanne: Next time

I’m

[00:48:46] Missy: one of those. I haven’t had one in a while. I need that.

[00:48:49] Margaret: Yeah, love it. Selling sunset. I mean, and then they fight and it’s wild. I don’t know. I love it. Um, I’m listening to, this is my I’m I’m I’m like a cult member Taylor swift.

Evermore and folklore those two albums. And I put, I set it on our podcast and I want to say the comments are filling up. People are like, thank you for the gift of these two albums. I’m in trying to get Amy on board. I played it. Non-stop in our hotel room and mom 2.0,

[00:49:17] Amy: I like.

[00:49:19] Margaret: she’s not a hundred percent in, but like, it’s one of those things that once it touches you, it will drag you under.

I have no fear. It’s a wave. You can’t fight it. And I will say I’m learning about, um, many things, but most fascinatingly right now is hippo facts because I have a 11 year old who only cares about hippos. So I will tell you that hippos produce their own sunscreen.

[00:49:43] Susanne: nice.

[00:49:44] Margaret: it. And that they’re nocturnal.

They’re actively. And that, um, hippos were imported to Columbia, the country by Pablo Escobar. And they are wreaking havoc on the ecosystem of Columbia because they escaped. And now they’re living in Columbia and they’re an invasive species. And what an invasive species they are they’re are huge.

[00:50:06] Missy: dangerous, right?

[00:50:07] Margaret: super dangerous.

I think they’re like

[00:50:09] Amy: predators.

[00:50:10] Margaret: like they’re in the top 10 with lethal animals and, um, they’re herbivores. So they don’t eat you, but they kill you.

[00:50:17] Susanne: Oh,

[00:50:18] Missy: They just run into you and

[00:50:20] Susanne: hi. No.

[00:50:21] Margaret: They don’t even, they, you’re not, you’re not even like a good meal, they just kill you.

[00:50:25] Susanne: Oh

[00:50:25] Margaret: So that’s what I’m learning.

[00:50:27] Susanne: Well, I learned

[00:50:28] Missy: You never knew you needed to know any of that.

[00:50:30] Margaret: Uh, it’s fun. It’s a fun part about having kids this age. They’re kind of high maintenance, but man, they teach you a lot about things you would have never known about.

[00:50:37] Susanne: Oh, I

[00:50:37] Missy: Yeah. I once learned everything about a Peregrine Falcon, and I wish I could say that I remembered all of it, but we had a big,

[00:50:44] Margaret: we did a Peregrine Falcon phase as well. For

[00:50:46] Missy: from the wild Kratts,

[00:50:48] Margaret: Yes. The wild Kratts. I had a wild Kratt Halloween costume once

it was really good.

[00:50:53] Susanne: I feel like I’m missing out all. I get those, the Pokemon stuff.

[00:50:56] Missy: Oh, yeah, you need to check out some wild Kratts. You never know what you’ll learn

[00:51:00] Susanne: You know what? I am going to plug the week. Is that what it’s called. Okay. Maybe I’m not going to plug it. It’s like a magazine called this week, the week and it’s for kids. And it’s like really thorough. I mean, it’s like, so if you’re kind of beyond ranger, Rick and that kind of stuff, and, but you’re not wanting to give them the New York times or anything, it’s like a really thorough little thing and he loves it.

He likes to do the crossword and the word search. So yeah,

[00:51:26] Missy: When you’re ready to go beyond hippos.

[00:51:28] Susanne: Yeah. Are no, it still has hippos. It still goes still

[00:51:31] Margaret: the hip hop, my guy’s 11. He’s still doing hip.

[00:51:33] Susanne: Yeah, no,

[00:51:35] Amy: you were saying HIPPA knowledge before

[00:51:37] Margaret: Oh, that would be more useful

[00:51:39] Amy: we all have more of that than

[00:51:40] Margaret: but I don’t have any of that only

[00:51:42] Missy: Yeah. Or at least enough of people screaming it and inappropriate circumstances.

[00:51:46] Amy: Miss

[00:51:47] Margaret: I know less about it from reading Twitter, as it turns.

[00:51:49] Missy: Right.

[00:51:50] Susanne: my gosh. All right, Missy, have you learned anything or read anything this

[00:51:54] Missy: I haven’t learned a damn thing in the last few days, but I, over the last couple of weeks, I watched bad vegan as anybody else watched bad

[00:52:02] Margaret: I’m one episode in.

[00:52:04] Susanne: Oh, Wendy errands was

[00:52:05] Amy: Oh,

[00:52:06] Susanne: that.

[00:52:07] Missy: Talk about a delight mirror. It’s I mean, it’s a documentary, but it’s, I have more questions and answers. I finished it and I’m just left with questions, but it’s.

Like a hot vegan chef in New York city who was going to the toast of the town. And then she gets involved with a con artist and it’s just the spiraling downward of what happens. And it ended. And I was like, well, okay. I have

[00:52:30] Margaret: I need.

[00:52:30] Amy: Should we watch it. I’m unclear if

[00:52:33] Missy: you should watch

[00:52:33] Margaret: you’d like it,

[00:52:34] Missy: I know it is.

[00:52:36] Margaret: swindler, Amy?

[00:52:37] Amy: No

[00:52:38] Margaret: Oh yeah. Yeah. You’ll like it.

[00:52:40] Missy: I love these documentaries that actually don’t tell you anything, like, like how did they get this show me, because it really doesn’t tell you anything, but it’s delicious to watch and just soak up. And, and it’s sad. I mean, it’s sad. This happened to her and it’s horrible that she got sucked into this.

Completely up ended her life. I’m so bad vegan. I finished the whole thing over. It was my laundry show for a couple of weeks and I’m done with it now, and it’s not that many episodes. and then I just recently read, it ends with us by calling Hoover.

[00:53:12] Margaret: Loved it loved it.

[00:53:13] Missy: Yes, a friend of mine got it at the library. And she texted me and said, I think you would like this.

I really want you to read it. I said, okay, I’ll put it on my list. And she goes, I’m finished with it. And it’s not due until the end of the week. It was right before we went to mom too. And she was like, do you just want it? And I read it in like 24 hours, like over, you know, it didn’t take me 24 hours to read, but, um, I read it so fast.

I texted her and said, I’m done. She was like, you’re done with it. But the whole book. I couldn’t put it down and a trigger warning for those listening. It is about domestic violence. but I thought it was really well done. So I do highly recommend reading and stop provoking, but also just like a good, fast fiction read if you need something that I liked every once in a while, just to be taken out of my world and read fiction.

[00:53:57] Susanne: Oh, yes.

[00:53:58] Missy: And that’s it. That’s it for me,

[00:53:59] Susanne: good. Okay. I needed a new book, so yes.

[00:54:03] Missy: it’d be a good book club book because it was. Spur a lot of discussion. I think

[00:54:07] Susanne: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I’m so excited. We got to touch base with you guys and

the, and

[00:54:13] Missy: And we pretty much ended on time. We’re pretty

[00:54:16] Susanne: for us. It’s on time. Yeah,

[00:54:18] Missy: Yeah. Yeah. We’re getting better. We’re 18 months into this gig and we’re getting

[00:54:23] Margaret: There you go.

[00:54:24] Missy: clock.

[00:54:25] Susanne: I know, I can’t fill it with people who have like half hour podcast. I’m just like, how do you do it? I don’t even know. We don’t even get done with the liquids and learned by then.

[00:54:33] Missy: They’re like mom gold there just a few minutes. I mean, it’s not very long. It’s

[00:54:36] Susanne: Yeah. Well, you’ve got the answer to the question and answer ones you guys do are just like little

[00:54:40] Margaret: Yeah, they’re short.

[00:54:41] Susanne: a little boop. Yeah. We would probably try to do that. And then like 25 minutes later, it’d be like, and that’s why we don’t do chewable vitamins. Like.

[00:54:51] Missy: Awesome. Well, thank you all for being here. It was a really fun.

[00:54:55] Margaret: you so much for having us

[00:54:57] Amy: It was our pleasure.

[00:54:58] Margaret: It was

[00:54:58] Susanne: right. Thank you.