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November 5, 2021

Mom &… Podcast: Tipsy Ellipses Episode

Guest: Cindy Whitesides, Life Coach

Show Summary

Tipsy Ellipses is a monthly bonus episode that we record via Facebook Live. This month’s live recording took place on Tuesday, November 2 and featured friend and guest, Cindy Whitesides.

Cindy is trained as a Wayfinder Life Coach with Martha Beck, Inc. and is currently in the process of becoming certified through the Courageous Living Coach Certification. Her goal is to become certified as an Associate Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation in 2022.

Cindy got her degree in Psychology from Texas A&M University and a Master’s degree in Higher Education from Colorado State University.

Topics From This Episode (Complete transcript is available below… scroll to the bottom!)

  • How to become a coach
  • Who should consider becoming a coach and why
  • How long it takes to get certified as a coach
  • Who can benefit from coaching
  • Identifying areas where we can let go
  • The difference between coaching and therapy
  • Coaches as compassionate witnesses
  • The Five Whys
  • How to find the right coach for you
  • How coaches fill the gaps in our community and family structures

Resources and Links From This Episode 

Look, Listen, Learn




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Musical Notes

Our delightfully happy intro and outro theme music, “We Will Get Through This” is performed by Young Presidents, and used under license from Shutterstock.

Cindy Whitesides Life Coach

Transcript* From This Episode

*Please note that this transcript is automatically generated through our editing software. Expect odd errors and misunderstood words. In fact, if you find a really funny one, send it to us, and we may feature it – and you – on our socials!

Susanne: [00:00:00] All right. We’re live. 

Missy: Yay. Welcome to 

Susanne: tipsy ellipsis. Yes. Do you want to explain what tipsy ellipses are this month? Missy? Sure. 

Missy: And then when I botch it, you can re-explain it.

So yeah, if you’ve never been here before for a tipsy it’s once a month, we go live from our Facebook page for a much more relaxed conversation than normal, a little less prep work on our parts. Maybe we’re not prepared. We’re not like we’re not being super careful than we usually have a 

Susanne: cocktail. 

Missy: And, um, we have guests who are cool moms doing all kinds of cool things.

Sometimes it’s just us, but we are lucky to have a guest tonight and I will wait and we’ll do a big introduction in just a second, but that’s what it is. And then this will be available as a podcast download usually Friday ish. 

Susanne: so, [00:01:00] well, 

Missy: yeah, so if you don’t like to top on and watch Facebook live, you can just listen to it.

But, and for those who are afraid of Facebook live, we can’t see you. You don’t have to participate. You can just sit and watch, but if you really want to participate, you can ask and then we maybe could add you to the stream. 

Susanne: Oh. But yes, we don’t do it. We don’t surprise attack anybody with it. We won’t call on you.

Yeah. Hey, and who are you? 

Missy: Oh, who am I as a great question today? 

Susanne: So I’m Missy Steven’s mom and writer. 

Missy: foster care advocate and today winning football team. Last football game, they finally 

Susanne: won. So that was exciting. That is so exciting to end on a high note. 

Missy: Yes. After a lot of low, 

Susanne: low notes. Oh, you know what?

My son played on. He plays on those I nine. So it’s like non competitive sports and he’s been one season where they were undefeated. And then he’s been on another [00:02:00] season where they didn’t win a single game. And it was, it’s just kind of fun to see it’s a different dynamic, but it can still be fun and special in its own way.

I look at the, can you tell that I am, uh, do not disturbing? Are 

Missy: I just breads? I realized that I had forgotten 

Susanne: to do not disturb. If y’all listen to tipsy. ellipses a couple of months ago we had our texts. Ladies as the guests never fails. As soon as we start recording, it’s like, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing.

Um, I don’t know what they’re talking about, but it’s well, I ran into Leigh Ann 

Missy: at our football game, Susanne. She’s 

Susanne: telling him you ready? 

Missy: So, yeah. And we took a picture and I posted it. So that may be is what it is, 

Susanne: but that was fun now. And I am Susanne Kerns. I’m a mom dot. LGBTQ advocate, a writer.

And tonight I’m a little tipsy. 

Missy: I’m not even tipsy yet. And I just could barely do my intro. I don’t 

Susanne: know. I’m just [00:03:00] tired. I know it’s candy. I got the sugar buzz. But like we said, we have a guest tonight. We have Cindy Whitesides, who I’m so excited. Y’all probably heard me talk about Cindy before. Cause she is a mom coach and a runner.

And she is the friend who I talk about, who got me to try stand up. So, I mean, talk about a good life coach getting me to do that. She can, she can work you through anything. If she can give you that. I was kind of scared for you 

Missy: since you were not 

Susanne: really a swimmer. No, I wear my life jacket. Didn’t I say? I sweat, oh my God.

Talk about what it was like 95 degrees that I had a life jacket on. Like everybody else. Yeah, just me and the eight year olds out there. But so Cindy is like we said, a life coach and helps women, including me imagine and create the truest versions of their lives. [00:04:00] And she likes to go deep and identify the patterns, themes and stories in our lives that are keeping us stuck, which is such a huge topic for us talking about getting on stuck.

And some of this, it was kind of fun reading Cindy’s bio cause some of this I didn’t know about her. So I’m learning a bit. I read too. So you’re a graduate of Texas, a and M university, and also has a master’s degree from Colorado state university. She’s a smarty pants and has had a really interesting variety of teaching and counseling roles.

And what I have known her primarily as a small business owner who co-founded and runs a medical practice with her husband. So that has been, it’s been talking about some pivots. So, whereas yeah, so the expertise was primarily in teaching and counseling roles, but was basically running a business, a medical practice, which.

That’s it interesting [00:05:00] stepping out of your rules, but before we dive too much into that though, twin boys who are 10 a bonus daughter, who’s 23, who we just adore she’s she worked in the medical practice. 

Cindy: She does. She’s got it. She’s our best medical assistant. 

Susanne: She is. And she was the medical assistant for my daughter a couple of weeks ago.

In fact, um, and Cindy, I CA I knew you were an avid runner, but six marathons and 12 half marathons. Wow. 

Cindy: Yeah, I did count. I wasn’t sure. 

Susanne: Um, I 

Missy: got one full and two half, and I feel like that’s more than enough. I’m just not cut out for 

Susanne: running. I am just starting the training for another half with my daughter.

And every single time, it feels like it’s impossible and that I’ll never even be able to make it mile, but I. I’ve been here enough times before that I know that somehow it happens, which is kind of a nice little [00:06:00] metaphor for life coaching as well. I mean, 

Cindy: it is for sure, for sure. Cause marathoning it half marathon, whatever it is, you don’t start out running 13 miles, 20 miles, 26.

You don’t do that. And I’ve heard you talk about your training. You start out with 10 minutes, work up to 20, you do the run walking, you do, you know, it’s, it’s little pivots that add up over time and that’s what gets you there. It’s a beautiful kind of floor for all kinds of changes in our life. 

Susanne: Yeah, it is.

And it also is kind of a metaphor for I’ve always, and I’ve been warning my daughter about this and like, if you take too much time off, like if you see if you think that, oh cool, I’m up to 10 miles. I got this. I mean, I’m a runner. You take a week off. And it’s almost like starting from scratch again. And so I’ve, I kind of feel like that is a similar thing to where we get kind of cocky and we think, oh, we got this figured out.

It’s fine. Kind of like my son who was always like, I don’t need to [00:07:00] keep taking my allergy medicine. Cause I feel good. I’m like, no, no good. But it is an 

Missy: incredible metaphor 

Susanne: for life. It is. You just have to keep plugging along and it just makes you so dang tired. 

Cindy: I think, I think there’s a, there’s a mantra and running that is consistency is more important than volume and that’s always stuck with me.

It’s like, it’s still it’s the all or nothing thinking that we talk about all the time where, you know, if I can’t, if I can’t do the 10, I shouldn’t do anything if I can’t do whatever’s on that plan. And, and just tonight I had, I was supposed to have had a five mile run. My day got all 

Susanne: off the, off the whack, like just, you know, and I’m watching 

Cindy: the clock and I got it kind of be with, and Missy later and I didn’t want to miss it.

And, and I just, I had that mantra in my head. So I went out for two miles and two miles and the scope of what I’m doing this week. Isn’t that much, it’s not a big deal, but it’s that consistency day in day out two miles is better than [00:08:00] zero miles. And so, yeah, there’s the 

Susanne: metaphor. Oh, oh good. Cause we do that with writing all the time.

Don’t we miss this where we think it’s all or nothing. Like if I can’t sit down in a cabin by a Creek for 10 hours straight, then it just doesn’t even count as writing. Whereas now it’s writing a page here and there while you’re in the car and the pickup line, or while you’re waiting at a doc doctor’s office or, you know, or whatever the case may be.

So I love that you did that. Yay. That’s an inspiration. Okay. 

Missy: The muscles like our brain is just like that. You just keep those muscles working and don’t let them forget how. 

Susanne: Okay now, thank you. Speaking of inspiration. So you have kind of been my informal life coach even before you, even before you decided to formally become a coach.

and I’m just, I’m so thrilled just because I just feel from the day I met you, like, this is what you should be [00:09:00] doing. Um, so I’m just really curious. So like, that takes a lot of courage too. I mean, I watched it from the background, the decisions that went into it, but can you kind of talk about like what went into that decision to go and become a certified coach and what are even the choices available for people who are maybe thinking about it themselves and don’t even know where to start 

Cindy: Yeah. It’s been a journey and a journey. Honestly, you know, you said since we’ve known each other, it’s been a journey on, on my website. I actually point all the way back to third grade. Um, I had had this experience, that story, oh my gosh. It it’s surprising to me that this has stuck with me. Like I don’t have a lot of, clear memories of third grade, but there was a kid in my class who was, parents were going through a divorce and I was sitting next to him one day and he started kind of spilling his guts about it and just how much it sucked and when he was going through.

And, um, I had been through [00:10:00] some similar stuff and I just, I just, you know, no training as an eight year old 

Susanne: stratified at this point, I was not certified. I was, uh, 

Cindy: and, and, you know, later on that day, he comes up to me on the playground and he’s like, you know, Cindy, I mean, it’s just, it’s a funny thing for a kid conversation to say, but he just said, Brian, Cindy, you’re really easy to talk to you.

Thanks. And I just remember being like. Oh, it just, it felt like the most natural thing in the world to me. So, so Susanne, as you mentioned, um, when I look at my career trajectory, there’s all these kinds of parts that seem a little disparate. Like I was teaching outdoor education and I worked as a counselor for a treatment center for teenagers with drug problems.

And I worked with college students who had been in violation of university policies. And when I started to piece together during, you know, some of my dot, dot dot searching, um, it was like, what, where are the threads in this? And it has to do with, , listening and, being with a person, you know, if there’s some difficult stuff and I’ve [00:11:00] always been really comfortable with that, I’ve had a really high tolerance for that.

Like somebody can tell me big stories and big stuff and I can be there with them. And then also. I’ve had people say, like, how do you hear all this stuff? And then walk away, go on with your life. And, um, I can, I can do both. And so, , yeah, so I’ve been running this medical practice for about eight years.

, and that has been a huge, that was a huge pivot, , out of, , a couple year break when my boys were born, I stayed home with them for almost three years. So definitely relate to a lot of which I’ll talk about on this podcast of like you step out on one career and then. Now, all you’re doing is wiping butts and wiping counters and Weinberg that’s right.

Professional wiper. 

Susanne: I’ve heard you say that

Cindy: you might need something wiped. So, um, so I’ve been doing that and, , certainly have gained incredible skills from that. But even in that role, when I was working in the office, , I don’t, I don’t do that directly anymore, but when I did, you know, I remember working with staff and it’s like, I cared a lot less about the performance, then a staff member who was going [00:12:00] through a big life transition or somebody who was sorting out a relationship problem.

And so what my office kind of looked like was a little coaching room. That’s 

Susanne: when 

Cindy: I worked. Um, so there’s been a thread of it forever. , and that’s, that’s kind of when I started looking for my next move, this. 

Susanne: It’s so exciting. So now, okay. So where, where does one start? When one is trying to decide if they want to be a coach, but then if they just say yes, for sure.

I do want to be a coach. I’m assuming that there’s all kinds of different certification programs based on what area you want to focus on. I’m assuming that I have zero idea. I mean, I know what you were focusing on, but I don’t know the wide variety. Yeah, you’ve done it. 

Cindy: Um, it honestly, and I say this with all respect.

, but some people refer to the coaching industry as the kind of unregulated wild west. And it, it is in some ways it is a largely unregulated industry. , I’m a coach who could be a coach. [00:13:00] We’re all coaches like there’s, there’s no legal, container to, to be able to call yourself a coach. It, it doesn’t exist.

, and there’s pros and cons to that, right? Like, so, you know, anyone can be a coach. And so the barrier to entry can be a little bit low. , so somebody who really has a passion for this and wants to do it, they can get in. Okay. And it also means that the quality can vary widely with the amount of training someone has and their experience and what kind of certifications they’ve gone through.

But there is an international organization called the international coaching Federation or ICF. , and they are the largest organization of coaches. It’s a nonprofit group that works to set standards and accreditation.

, the program that I just finished becoming certified through, , is an ICF accredited program. So that’s, that’s a place to start in terms of standards is looking for an ICF accredited program because that means it’s met some basic standards about how much training you’ve had, how many hours you’ve been coaching, , you know, ethical standards.

It’s, it’s [00:14:00] the only organization that you can belong to as a member that enforces ethical standards for coaches. So if I’m a coach and I violate your confidentiality and. Member you can logically complaint with the ICF and that’s important from a regulation standpoint, from a safety standpoint. Yeah. So that’s a good place to start is ICF.

They accredited date, correct. Credit eight credit eight. That’s what we’re going for various coaching programs, um, at different levels. And so you can take these training programs. So programs where I see at the credits and some aren’t. Um, yeah. And so that’s kinda what the, what the process looks like. You go through one of those programs, you get certified there, and then if you want to go on for an ICF accreditation, that’s a separate process than your training process.

And so, so you talked about styles, you know, there’s, there’s, uh, different coaching styles. There’s different places that focus on relationships or money coaching or career coaching or whatever. So really, you know, the sky’s the limit. I mean, people, people do. I mean, sexuality work [00:15:00] people do you know?

Um, I have a friend who’s an ADHD executive function coach for teenagers. In college kids like, wow, that’s fascinating. I have a friend who’s a body image coach. Like, you know, the range is really wide. 

Missy: So how did you pick the program you chose? 

Cindy: So, um, that’s a great question. Um, the whole time I just went through, it was called the courageous living coach certification program.

And the director of the program Kate Swoboda, has been a coach since the mid two thousands or something. She’s been around a while. And, um, I’ve been on our mailing list. I don’t know how I got on her mailing list originally, but, , I’ve been following her for a long time and she, I just, I liked her vibe.

I liked, , her approach is all about kind of a forward-leaning positive approach to courage, encourages a habit, right? Like that, all of the things we talk about about changing our lives or improving, or, reaching a goal, whatever, like it kind of starts with courage, you know, the courage to Nate.

What’s your, after the courage to tell the truth to yourself, the courage to show up for your habits every day. and so it was an [00:16:00] ICF accredited program and that’s something that I knew was important to me. Um, especially people who might work in corporate coaching. So that’s something that’s trending in the world of coaching is corporations actually hiring in-house coaches.

So you’re just a staff 

Susanne: coach, right? 

Cindy: That’s right. That’s right. 

Susanne: That’s right. That’s my frame of reference. She’s an actual licensed psychologist, but same.

Cindy: Yeah. So if you want to do that kind of work, definitely being an ICF accredited coach would be the first step because corporate world, they’re looking for, like, you need to have some certification and that’s yeah. That’s kind of the one they’d be 

Susanne: looking at. Now, how long does that all take them?

Is it, is it a set your own pace based on, you know, if someone is full-time working another job and they’re trying to, you know, make little small bites towards it, or is it something that if you were full in for, you know, six months, you could just nail it out real fast? Like how does that work 

Cindy: again? I can’t [00:17:00] speak to all programs.

My program was a set duration of 10 months. So we started last January. We finished up this and we’re starting to push out, , graduation announcements this month. Which is fine. Follow the courageous living coach certification page. I’ll be on their students having passed my certification. So ours was 10 months.

Um, the, the folks in my program, , I was working full-time and, you know, balancing that and doing the mom thing at the same time, lots of books where, , and there’s also people who were in transition. Some people who’ve been laid off and I’m like, this is what I’m going to do. Um, and so that was kind of full-time they kind of dove into it and made it their full-time job, , and variations in between your people who do part-time stuff.

People who add jobs when the program started and then got laid off during things and exchanged. And so 10 months is a long time to go through a cohort together. , so the, these, these women that I went into the program together and mean, we are just, we’ve been through a lot of life together and shared a lot of stuff.

So it’s, it’s a special thing to get, to go through a program like that. 

Susanne: Yeah, get into, I mean, [00:18:00] coach and be coached by a group. I mean, that’s a real intimate setting and yeah. That’s what, how big was that group that you were with, or your particular group of women that you were with? 

Cindy: There was about 25 of us in this program.


Susanne: And 

Missy: did you ever do any, it, was it in person or was 

Cindy: it all designed to have an in-person component, but with the, pandemic we got kind of. Yeah. So we, our kickoff retreat was supposed to be in person and that became virtual last January. And then we were going to have a make-up retreat. Remember, remember in the summer when like everything was opening up and move this kind of people 

Susanne: glorious, clean, 

Cindy: they scheduled the like end of program retreat, which was a new thing.

We were going to do that in September and then Delta hit. And then, so there is currently talk of a, uh, uh, a class of 20, 21 reunion in the spring of 22. It was in the pandemic world. We all stopped planning so 

Susanne: far ahead. Oh, no kidding. So there are these people then from all around the country then [00:19:00] international actually.


Cindy: yeah. I have a classmate, , in the UK. I have several classmates in Canada. I think, think that’s it. I hope I’m not leaving anybody out, but yeah. Yeah, it was fast. I mean, just people from all different walks of life, all different ages. I mean, everyone from people in their early twenties to some classmates in there.

It was, it was fascinating. 

Susanne: It was really cool. How interesting to get so many different perspectives when you’re all talking about a particular subject, it’s just, yeah. It’s all different frame of references. 

Missy: So cool. So now I have another friend who’s gone through a similar process and she had to have like, um, Guinea pigs for lack of a better word, but she had that people go through coaching with her as almost, I can’t think of the word that I’m using, but it’s like, you’re not fully certified yet, but you’re, you have to get hours 

Cindy: of certified trainer training.

You have to launch so many hours as a coach. Like, so you’re doing that now. I am doing, I am doing that. I have about 70 hours under my [00:20:00] belt. I needed 60 for this program. So, so 60 to finish my program, I’ve got about 70 now and I need a hundred to get to the ICF, uh, to jump through that set of hoops.

And then there’s an exam process and some mentoring I have to do and some other stuff, but yeah, so I’m still, I’m still doing some work with some of my cohort. I’ve got a couple of clients I work with. , and, , I’m looking for folks. I mean, right now I’m in the phase of just really kind of coaching anybody.

I haven’t really gotten to the place of like, I coach this type of woman on this type of issue. Like I’ve coached people on everything from relationships to substance abuse, to, you know, career stuff, somebody today I was coaching and we were talking about like, you know, making peace with forgiveness and, and some stuff that had happened and really kind of exploring her relationship with that.

So, I mean, I’m always kind of just humbled and awestruck that the tools of coaching and the process of two people coming together. And the [00:21:00] alchemy of that, like two people coming together to focus on one person. Right. Like, and , to just ask questions and kind of walk a trail together and, um, you know, un-peel layers, coaching is a subtractive process.

It’s, we’re, we’re moving stuff out of the way that’s that’s between you and your path, your path, whatever that is. Yeah. 

Missy: Yeah. I love that. 

Susanne: I know. 

Cindy: Well, in a world where we all have too much stuff to do, right. Like hygiene is not about like, let’s take your ass and let’s do this and let’s set some big goals and whatever.

It’s more like, how do we peel away? What’s not you, like, how do we, how do we really look at, get down to the core? Like what matters? And once you have that alignment, things get easier. And we live in a culture that is. It’s like slap a new routine on and try this and go to the general or, and like, I mean, , who do you know that isn’t breaking under the way that the schedules right now?

Nobody. Yeah, 

Susanne: exactly. So now you a 

Missy: culture of I’m sorry, we always do that. That’s okay. I was just saying we are a culture of excess and [00:22:00] ad-ons the idea of taking away is sort of scary. I think to people, when you start talking about like, what can you let go? We interviewed someone this week and the episodes upcoming, but without giving spoilers, one of the things she talked to us about was it’s in the far the stuff you don’t have to do.

And it’s hard women especially were like, well, there’s nothing I have to do all the false, that’s a falsehood, but getting people to that point to see it is tough. 

Cindy: Well, and that’s something we talked about in the intro is the stories we tell ourselves, right? Like, and really just having, having a coach near you to say, is that true?

Is that true? You can’t let that go. Like let’s, let’s, let’s kick that around in a really supportive, empathetic, like container, but to say , let’s check that out. Let’s keep that around a little bit. Let’s kick the tires and see, is that really true? What if let’s imagine let’s do it. Let’s do some imagining what would happen and, and yeah, that’s, that’s usually our egos, you know, trying to hold on to like, yeah, but I’m important and I’m, I’m giving you my [00:23:00] community and I’m this kind of mom, I’m this kind of worker I’m this counted whatever.

And, and the fear is if I let that go, who are we going to be? 

Susanne: Yes. Woo. That should be our tagline. That’s our tagline. My goodness, man. You see why? I mean, when I come back from coffee with Cindy, it’s like, I got some stuff to think through

some tough questions

now. Okay. Now this is, this is kind of separate from coaching, but , we kind of alluded to it when we were talking about Ted lasso and the difference between the coach and someone who is a psychologist or therapy or whatever. And so if this is out of your wheelhouse or just not anything that you feel comfortable talking about, just let me know.

But I am curious for people who are trying to do. Do I need a coach or do I need to go to therapy? Like, is [00:24:00] there, you know, kind of some boxes they should check off to decide one versus the other. 

Cindy: I know. Um, no, this is absolutely as part of coach training, any good program should be helping the trainees understand where those lines are and where those boundaries are.

Um, so that, yeah, that’s super 

Susanne: important. And, 

Cindy: my take on it is that, you know, coaching and therapy they’re in the same wheelhouse, right? Like it’s all about talking with, it looks a lot the same, right? Like it’s two people having an intimate conversation, right? Like at the end of the day, , there’s a lot of things in common.

, there’s some bright line differences that we can talk about things like. Um, you know, mental illness, right? If somebody has an active diagnosis, if somebody is actively struggling with depression, anxiety, eating disorders, , things that would qualify in the DSM as actual, , diagnoses that are actively hurting or impacting your quality of life, you should probably be hanging out with a therapist, right?

Like that’s, that’s that. So, [00:25:00] you know, you’re dealing with mental illness and, what else, you know, things like trauma, right? Like coaches, coaches should probably stay away from trauma. And when you look at the ethical standards of the ICF, it, it is pretty clear about that. Right. We start talking about really going deep with, trauma issues.

That’s, that’s, that’s out of the live house of, of where a coach should be hanging out. Um, I think when you think about coaching, you can think about it in some ways as kind of a pure profession. , to therapy, right? So you have care professional teachers, you’re a paraprofessional, , medical staff, , not everyone who goes to therapy is struggling with a real active diagnosis.

A lot of folks who go to therapy have a diagnosis that’s kind of in the, in the therapy world is known as, um, adjustment disorder. , and not that it’s a throw away diagnosis, but it’s kind of the one when somebody is in therapy and adjustment disorder just kind of looks at like regular people dealing with regular people problems, right?

You’re adjusting to your role as a mom, you’re adjusting to a divorce, you’re adjusting to a new job and you’re having a hard time. Right. And that, so someone who’s kind of in that camp, , [00:26:00] who is, , not struggling with mental health issues, somebody who’s dealing with regular life problems and they, you know, they feel stuck.

They feel frustrated. They feel like they’re not sure what their next step should be. You know, do I stay in the relationship? Do I leave? , things feel kind of not depressed, but maybe things still kind of. You know, and I’m looking like, I remember a time when my life felt more colorful than this what’s what’s going on.

that would be stuff that would be good for coach. So I kind of think about it as like Venn diagrams, right? Like you’ve got two circles, you’ve got, you know, the, the therapy circle and the coaching circle. The truth is a lot of folks could do well in either. Right? Yeah. Does that help? Is 

Susanne: that kind of yeah.

Was a lot, yeah. Do people 

Missy: do them at the same time a lot or is it one of those things like you should probably go do your therapy and then enter a coaching or can they work together? 

Cindy: That’s a great question. before I did this program, I wasn’t really familiar with that, but actually I’ve seen, in my program, I’ve seen a lot of people do that successfully together.

So somebody who maybe has some [00:27:00] traumatic stuff from their childhood, right. That they want to be dealing with, or, you know, a mood disorder or some stuff, maybe they’re on some medication or whatever, but they’re actively working with a therapist. It’s going well, and they’re interested in coaching to kind of explore more specific, uh, career decision or, I mean, whatever money coaching can, can really be about anything, but yeah, they absolutely can work hand in hand and there’s some best practices with, , you know, a therapist and a coach possibly they’re having communication and consent required to have that thing.

So yeah, that actually isn’t as uncommon as you might think. And there are people who I coach who also have a therapist and, you know, kind of with a therapist, they, they kind of focus on a different set of things. And then in coaching, we do well. We do so. 

Missy: Yeah. I know personally when I went through some coaching, it unlocked some stuff that I did not realize was there and required some therapy.

Cindy: The coach helped you get there help you kind of go. 

Missy: Yeah. Some of the questions she was asking, they [00:28:00] were helping me get unstuck at a certain point in my life. And really it was around My physical health had suffered because my mental health had kind of been for awhile and she was she’s an athlete.

And she was helping me get back and find some of that. And in the process of asking questions about my limiting beliefs, like, what was it that was stopping me, I kind of went back and thought, I need to go deeper on some of these things. I, my limiting beliefs, don’t just extend to my ability to do squats or run a mile.

Like there’s more there. And so I had already had a relationship with a therapist, but I scheduled an appointment to go back and see her and dive into some other stuff because of some of the things that came up in our coaching session. And my, the woman who was coaching me said, I am not a therapist.

Like I am not qualified to offer you therapy. That’s not what we’re here 

Susanne: for. 

Cindy: Good for her. She did a good job. 

Susanne: Yeah. And we had, 

Missy: [00:29:00] because we had a friend relationship. She’s like, I’d love to dive in this with you. Like, I really would love to talk with you, but that’s not what we’re doing here. And if you have a therapist that’s good there.

Cindy: Yeah. That would be better suited for there, man. That’s, that’s a cool experience , and not surprising at all. Like how, how beautiful that these things were showing up, you know, showed up in your body, your mental health, and then , you started peeling back the layers and then like, oh look, we have more here than we thought.


Susanne: yeah, you can take somebody to 

Missy: ask the right questions. And sometimes you can’t ask yourself those questions for whatever reason, like they’re in you somewhere, but you can’t muster up the gumption and be like, here’s what I really need to ask myself and having a coach to sit across from you and say, well, Yeah.


Susanne: why 

Missy: that let’s go to the next step 

Susanne: and not let you cheat out of the question either.

Cindy: Yeah. There’s this concept of the compassionate [00:30:00] witness, right? Like the compassion having another, another heart, another mind, looking at a situation. And so what’s funny is this happens all the time when coaches are coaching other coaches, um, you know, and sometimes I’ll have a fellow coach ask me a question that just as soon as they say it, it’s just so flipping obvious, like, oh, right, right.

Like, and you know, why didn’t I see that? Right. I have the same set of tools that you do to ask these same questions , to be curious in the same ways. And , they can see something that I can’t see. So that’s incredibly human , to say like, yeah, why didn’t I, why couldn’t I just. So if coach my way through that coaching is a co-created process.

It’s a process of, and that intimacy and again, that , two energies coming together and saying, we’re going to go into your animal for a little bit. Let’s let’s go, let’s go kick the ball around there and see what happens. Yeah. It’s kind of beautiful. 

Missy: And another, person’s not, doesn’t always have that fear.

There’s that level of fear to all of us. We’re like, if I ask the question and 

Susanne: I have to answer it [00:31:00] and I might 

Missy: not like the answer almost guaranteed in my case, I almost never liked the answer 

Cindy: and they don’t have their stories. Yeah. They don’t have your they’re your beliefs. They don’t have your stories.

So they say, what, what, you know, , there’s a coaching technique called the five whys. Right. And we go, okay, why is that? And the answer him. Okay. Why is that? And we keep going and you get down and it’s like, oftentimes it comes down to like, I’m going to be alone. I’m going to be a bag lady.

I’m going to. You know, I’m going to, I’m going to be destroyed. I’ll be I’ll die. Right. We get down to the fifth. Why, why is that a problem? Why is that bothering you and you dead down? It’s like, ultimately what we’re starting to talk about. Like some really core issues as humans feeling afraid of, if I don’t have these things, who am I all die?

And you know, and once you can, can wrap your arms around that and you go, oh, is that true? Am I going to actually die? And when you start backing it up and go, oh, I could make a different decision here. I wouldn’t die. Like I might have to change something. I might have to, re-examine something I might have to set a boundary in my life.

I might have to [00:32:00] whatever, but , it’s not going to be the end of the world. 

Missy: I’d be hard. 

Susanne: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. But, okay. So now one of the things that we’re hoping to encourage people, we are coming around to the new year’s, which I can’t even believe that I’m saying that. I mean, it’s, it’s November, but you know, I want to at least get that seed in people’s head.

So as they do get closer to the new year’s resolutions and all this kind of stuff is usually is stuff that people do for like two weeks and then they’re done with it. Um, and I do really think after a year of interviewing coaches, that there’s so much benefit, even for, we had our, one of our way back when conversations with, with KJ Del Antonia and it wasn’t life coaching, but it was book coaching.

She was the editor, the New York times, well family page, she had written a book. It was a [00:33:00] non-fiction book. , and she needed a coach to help her through the fiction. One need quote, unquote, but she benefited greatly from having a coach to help her with that. And I just, that just meant so much to me again, from the writer’s world, um, even pros can benefit from a coach.

Like you were saying, you being coached by other coaches, they can still find something that maybe you weren’t able to find for yourself as a professional coach. So we are just trying to, I don’t know if there’s a stigma attached to it, or sometimes as women, we don’t think that we’re worth it because there is a price tag associated with that.

. So we’re trying to kick all that to the side and get people through as many. As many excuses as we can get people to not be looking for the help of a coach. And one of the things that I really believe strongly is that some of the most simple things can be really intimidating.

[00:34:00] Like when I used to try to get people to go to the school board meetings, just even telling people here, you know, here’s a picture of the parking lot. Here’s the area where you will park. This is the building you will go to when you get there. I can get my husband. 

Missy: If that’s the information he needs, he wants to know where we’re going to park exactly how it’s going to.

Susanne: Yes, who the host 

Missy: is at the restaurant would 

Cindy: help him a lot. Like he really wants 

Missy: to go. 

Susanne: We talked about this with Cindy and my standup paddle boarding. I mean, talk about the universe telling you that it’s time to do something the week before Cindy even reached out of the blue, it was like, Hey, want to go stand up, paddle boarding.

This isn’t something that we had been talking about. I haven’t 

Cindy: had any for you to be like, what are you talking about now? 

Susanne: It was so weird because my daughter, Zoe and I had been talking about it for months leading up to that. And I finally got to the point where like, I’m [00:35:00] stalling enough, Zoe’s going to think I’m crazy.

Like, why haven’t we signed up to do this? And it was seriously the point of like, I’m going to put myself in the position. I’m going to act as if I am a standup paddle boarder. What would be the first thing that I do? I would probably have to park my car. So it was just, it was literally the act of like, where would one park, if one was going to go stand up, paddle boarding.

Okay. Okay. I parked so I can do that. And so I do think that there are people, there are, hopefully there are others like me, and I’m not the only one who feels this way, but so let’s pretend instead of stand up paddle boarding, it is going to see a coach. So what are those things? You know, what is the equivalent of finding the parking space to go to be with a coach?

Like, so I’m assuming someone starts by going to your website and reaching out , what would be the proper thing for someone to say, who feels like they’re already , just asking the coach wrong. Like they need to give you a 10 [00:36:00] page, you know, breakdown of what they think their problem is or do they just need to be, hi, my name is Susanne.

What is your availability? Like, 

Cindy: can I, can I give you, I have two thoughts about the backup, just a second, about this? Like who needs a coach? And like the stigma is. and the first one is kind of from an athletic point of view, like we’re all familiar with the idea that the best basketball players in the world have a coach, the soccer players on Ted lasso had Ted lasso.

Um, you know, the gymnast have a coach. You know, we’re all used to the idea that in athletics, there’s a coach. I, you know, I’ve been a runner since, I don’t know middle school, no school. I’ve been a runner, um, in some form or fashion, mostly recreational, mostly slow. And I, and I have a coach here, uh, here in Austin.

I’m part of a running group and I, and I pay a coach and, you know, do I know the basic workouts that we do? I do. Do I know how much mileage I need to run to run and half I do. I know [00:37:00] all that stuff. And does having a coach there to guide you. To keep me on track to ask questions when, um, you know, I’ve got a race coming up this weekend and we had a workout tomorrow morning and I’m like, Hey, do you want me to do this one?

Or this one? Like, which one would be better for me? And I can bounce it off of him. And he, he keeps his eye on the big picture while I’m stuck in traffic. And that’s what I think a coach is about. So from an athletic point of view, that coach keeps the keeps the high level view while you’re driving through town.

And the coach is like, you know what, you’re good hanging in there in about five minutes. You’re going to be a clear, it’s good. It’s good. You know, like a coach didn’t have that perspective. So from an athletic point of view, I think that’s a really lovely way to think about de-stigmatizing coaching, right?

Like all kinds of high-performing people at coaching executives, hire coaches all the time, vice presidents, all those kinds of people have coaches. So there’s that. And then the other thing that kind of came to my mind about coaching that I wanted to bring up. There’s a deeply feminine tradition around coaching, the kind of feminine wisdom that in a more tribal society, right?

A more [00:38:00] intact society where we’re not all alone in our little boxes alone with our little wipeys, I’m doing this mothering thing where, where there would be that kind of coaching energy, right? Like the elder women in the tribe would be there to, to go ask those questions to say, God, what’s important to me here.

What should we be thinking about? I had this decision to make, and I felt really torn about it. Like, what does that look like? Or I’m totally overwhelmed. Right? There was, there was that wisdom, collective that that would exist in it’s a very feminine kind of thing of people coming together. And one of, one of my coaches said to me, one time, you know, And other times, you know, I would just be like your cool wise aunt and like you would bring me a chicken.

Yes. Yeah. It’s like, it’s kind of like how created we’re in this together where we’re all the same. Your coach is not a group or your coach doesn’t have all the answers. They’re just somebody who maybe sits in a place of non-judgment and can ask good questions. Right? Like who might [00:39:00] have some wisdom having walked that trail before.

Right. And so just two different ways of thinking about it, about why everyone needs to everybody, everybody can benefit from this. This is just really about like, , finding more of who you are and affirming that and moving forward in life in a way that feels good. So, so there’s that. So how do you get started?

What does that look like? You know, again, every coach is kind of different. There are coaches you have to apply to work with and there’s, you know, things you go through. , most coaches, what it looks like is some variation of you make contact with them, whether that’s on their website, shoot them email. Um, most coaches offer some form of, uh, what’s not as a discovery call an intro call, usually complimentary 15 to 30 minutes or so where we just get to know each other, we kind of, you know, what’s going on with.

Martha Beck is a well-known coach and she has a question of like, so what’s sells

Missy: yes. Almost bit my [00:40:00] bourbon a little bit. I love that whatever is broken in me, like love starting with a Woodstock 

Susanne: look, listen, learn. Instead of look, listen, learn. We’re just gonna be like, okay, what’s stuck. Yes. 

Cindy: That’s where we started. I mean, again, coaching is kind of a, a strengths-based approach. you may be rocking your workout routine and that’s great.

You don’t need to talk about that with me. Like what’s sucking is your career or kind of feeling stuck is your, like, whatever it is, like, that’s where we need to go. We don’t need it. Like, you know, I mean, I’ll cheer you on. I’m glad to hear things are going well, but like we come together to like improve what’s sucking.

Right? So, so the discovery call kind of looks like that. What sucks what’s going on? What’s your situation? What are you looking for? Um, there are in coaching. Sometimes we talk about kind of a primary focus of like, in the course of X amount of time, three, six months, something like that. Where do you want to be?

Well, I want to, I want to feel not stuck in this career. I want to make a decision about staying in my marriage or not. I want to, uh, I want to not feel so overwhelmed and [00:41:00] stressed all the time. Right? Like that’s kind of a primary focus. And then on any given session, we kind of have a focus that for that day, right?

Like, so, so what’s going on related to that, that today is going to have. Peel that onion a little bit, like where are we going towards you’re working on overwhelm, right? Like overwhelm is your thing. Okay. What’s going on for you around that this week and what can we do to move the ball down the field just a little bit in this session?

So, yeah, so it’s really a pretty organic process. It’s, um, some coaches work on packages, Where you buy, you know, three months, six months, one month, whatever, you know, packages and you pay up front some coaches are more session by session or month by month. you just want to get to know the coach and really look at what does their social media look like?

What does their writing look like? You know, I’ve heard them on podcasts. Like, do you vibe with their way of being in the world? Right? Cause it’s, it’s pretty intimate. Like you, you need to have that chemistry and that energy together. 

Susanne: Yeah, I’m guessing there’s a lot of gut, a gut feel , just listen to yourself and be like, does this feel right?[00:42:00] 

Right. When 

Missy: you meet somebody out in the world, you’re like, we’re going to be friends. Like I was just telling Cindy before we started, when Susanne and I met, we roomed at a conference and it was like, we’re going to be all right. Like, we’re 

Susanne: going to make it, we’re going 

Missy: to be friends. We can room together.

This is good. You have a gut feel. And I think it’s the same with, it’s the same with, if you, you go to a doctor and you’re like, I didn’t like their bedside manner, you know? So if you vibing with that coach, then listen to yourself. Or if you’re not listen to 

Susanne: yourself. Yeah. 

Cindy: There’s also styles of what you’re looking for. So there are folks who really put themselves out there as 

Missy: kind of an accountability coach, kind of a I’m 

Cindy: here to help you make change and kick your butt. And I’m like, we’re going to, I’m going to hold you accountable. And that kind of thing.

If somebody really was looking for that type of coaching, they would be a terrible fit for me because I’m a lot more interested in like, who are you in the world? Like, how do you move in? Like, what’s your state of being, what’s your state of your relationship to yourself right in this [00:43:00] quiet moment. Are you at peace?

Like, are we like that kind of stuff? And so if somebody wants kinda kick my ass, I’m gonna go take on the world coach. Like, there are a lot of coaches who would love to do that. I’m not going to be a good fit for that person. Right. So really like check out what somebody says about themselves on their website and believe them.

Right. Like, 

Susanne: yeah. Yeah. 

Missy: I figure out kind of what you want out of the process. 

Susanne: Yeah. Is there like a check? I’m sure you could just Google it like a checklist of questions to ask a coach or to ask yourself about your interaction with that coach to see if they’re going to be a good fit. People should probably use that when going out on dates as well, and just interacting with other humans.

Cindy: That’s so sexy. All right. 

Susanne: That’s why I don’t go out on dates. Well, that on you’re married. I dunno.

Cindy: That’s great. Um, I don’t, I don’t know of a formal checklist, but what Missy, what you just said. I think that’s, that’s the best advice I would [00:44:00] give is. Which also would apply on a date is the question of kind of, how did you feel while you were talking to that person? Did you feel more like yourself? Did you feel heard?

did you feel like the questions kind of resonated? Like those are the questions you need to hear, even if they were a little hard to hear, you know, like there’s kind of a gut check of like, did, did I feel like myself with this person? Cause yeah, you’re going to be doing a lot of big work with them. So, um, yeah.

That’s, that’s important. I don’t know of any checklists, but yeah. Maybe somebody should 

Susanne: write one. I don’t know. Hey, I think you just did. Those are, I mean, those are just a few questions I think would be really good. Yeah. My first blog post, once I start, 

Missy: there you go. I think I was in my forties before it really realized it was okay to not feel that vibe and connection with anyone.

I considered a professional. So if I’d gone to, like, for example, I went to a therapist for a while. I had some wonderful qualities and she helped me with [00:45:00] a, like a big moment in my life that I needed to get past. But we reached a point where I realized she was not asking the right questions and she did not get where I was coming from.

And we needed to part ways it was painful for me. 

Susanne: And so I 

Missy: think I’m leading up to a question, although I haven’t quite formulated it yet, but if somebody is not ready to trust their gut, I think something like a checklist is a good idea, I guess. But I think what I’m wondering is say someone gets two or three sessions down the road and you realize you’re just not, do they need to be afraid of saying this isn’t working or is it just it’s okay.

To move on and try the next 

Cindy: coach. So, so two things on that, the first one I’d say is absolutely. Yeah. You know, if it’s not a good fit in the coaching relationship, you’re not going to be able to, to meet the goals, that, that you’re trying to get to. So yeah, absolutely. You need to say that it’s part of knowing yourself and if your God feels bad, , [00:46:00] to give voice to that.

Right. And that, that practice of self-trust that you just talked about, like that’s part of becoming who you are part of becoming an adult. Um, and that’s, that’s a really important step. that being said there, there is, there is an aspect of kind of resistance that can come up as well in coaching. And so the one thing I’d say is you might want to check it out, like, is it.

I’m hitting this, this, because I really like, I kind of have a love, hate relationship with what I’m trying to progress on. Right. Am I really ready to do it? And, and, and also I would say this, if you’re not ready, you’re not ready. Like that’s okay, too. Right. So yeah. I’m one of the coaches that I’ve worked with, , who helped me get started on this path.

She said, you know, I don’t want anybody here who doesn’t want to be here. Like, I would never hold somebody in a, in a package or in a something because I, you know, right. Like, that’s just, it’s kind of at odds with, with coaching. , so with the caveat of checking it out for yourself, is it resistance?

Is it that, um, I’m scared to change it. I’m kind of blaming the coach. [00:47:00] You just wouldn’t want to check that out for yourself. And again, nobody can tell you that, but you, you know, like their wisdom of God, you know, the, the, this isn’t, this isn’t getting me to the place I need to be in the way that it was for awhile.

It reminds me of the first time you find out that you can not like dog. You know, like the chain. Right, right. I totally hear that was like, no, I didn’t jive with them. And I remember somebody said that to me in my thirties. And they were like, well, you can just go to a different doctor. And I was like,

yeah, they’re like, it’s called a second opinion. 

Susanne: Oh yeah. 

Missy: Same. I mean, I was in my forties before. It was like, I don’t like that guy I’m out. It was hard to do. And I still feel like I owe him some explanation. I do not. 

Susanne: I hired a doctor. He was so horrible to me. Like it became almost a joke, like three visits in a row.

And finally, one time I think it was I pregnant or I just had my son and I had a reaction to shrimp and it [00:48:00] was covered in welts, hormonal, a mess I call and like, this is going on. And he was like, oh, well go take some Benadryl and you know, go to bed. he’s like, uh, are you able to breathe?

And I was like, yeah. He’s like, well then you’re okay. And I was just like, no, no. And I was 

Missy: covered in hives. So 

Susanne: like, I, I couldn’t think about it then, but then the next day I just called up the office and I was like, I just need to let you know. that was not cool. It did not appreciate that.

I’m sure that you as a doctor see like things that are a million times worse than this, but as you know, the mom of a newborn who’s covered in hives in hormonal. You need to read the room. Mr.

Cindy: was a drop of empathy 

Susanne: or a drop of courage in the previous three times that he’s the same doctor who in my knee hurt, had me sit down and did the, did the

[00:49:00] and then he’s like, yeah, that’s why your knee hurts. And like,

I, shit, he’s also the one that when I went in, when I was starting to have anxiety attacks, while driving was like, okay, well this is a half hour appointment. And I think your problem is that you need to do immersion therapy. So just go dry for a half hour. And I was like, I have panic attacks when I drive.

He’s like, he’s like, well, yeah, but you’ll work through it by doing it. Um, and no one’s expecting you home for half hour because you blocked out a half hour for this appointment. So go drive for half. 

Missy: So essentially get out of my room and go driving thousands pound machinery while you’re 

Susanne: the worst. I wish I remembered his name so I could warn everybody in Ballard, Ballard, Seattle, Washington here.

Oh no, he’s not enough then. But anyway, so yeah. Listen to your gut. 

Cindy: Taking [00:50:00] Susanne needed a coach to help guide you through that. Does this feel right to 

Susanne: you? I need a medical coat. You know what? I have a friend who actually does, she’s a medical advocate and she will go along with you to your medical appointments.

That’s primarily for people who are elderly and don’t have like, uh, someone to go with them. Um, I can 

Missy: talk about this week, it’s total bunny trail, but I have a friend who’s dealing with some stuff with her parents and of course. The permanent doubter in my head was like, I don’t know if I’m going to be able, when it’s time, want someone to go with 

Susanne: me, uh, Belinda, I’ll hook you up with Belinda.

She’s a medical advocate and just started her own practice. 

Missy: I just want to start hanging out with her now just to get me ready. 

Susanne: She’s fun. I’m just going to start bringing, I just have the most amazing friends you attract. You attract 

Cindy: that Susanne and you are an interesting person and you just, you just bring these interesting, 

Susanne: I mean, you’re a, you’re a magnet for this stuff.

Oh, well, [00:51:00] glad I magnetized you. I was just 

Cindy: thinking about 

Susanne: the 

Cindy: bunny trail. You just went down about the, the medical advocates. One of the things that I think is really fascinating, just personally is there are like death coaches. There are people who. Their whole work is to assist families with the process of letting someone go.

And I just think like, what kind of holy work, isn’t that like? Oh, intimate, beautiful. Like, but think about all the little things you don’t know, you’ve never been, you hired doulas and support and stuff to give birth. Like, why wouldn’t we have that win on the way out. Right. Like it makes sense. And so just to, you know, an example of how wide coaching can be, there are people who help coach families through that process.


Susanne: I had a friend who was talking about doing that the other night, and I think that’s so beautiful because, as someone who has lived through working with hospice, uh, dealing with a relative, going through hospice, um, there [00:52:00] has in any other profession, there’s a whole wide variety of levels of hospice workers for the most part.

I mean, they are angels on earth. And I think actually for the most part, like 99.9% of them are, but. They it’s so much a part of their regular life, kind of like the doctor who was not impressed by the fact that I had highest from shrimp. So they almost become not numb to it, but they are just, this is just par for the course.

This is just what happens every day. And so they can almost become a little too matter of fact. Um, and part of it is probably for their own self survival that they have to do, that they can not become, you know, a puddle every time they have to explain the bag of stuff that they are giving someone who is working through that.

Um, but. I think that people who are specially trained, uh, the friend who mentioned it the other night called it a death doula, um, which I [00:53:00] don’t know if that is the industry standard or if it’s a particular level of coach. But I do think there probably is kind of , maybe a little bit more of the empathy and the sensitivity around it.

Probably more than what you get, you know, covered by insurance in terms of, again, angels on earth, these hospice workers, what they are able to do. Um, but you know, they’re, they’re, they’re a little bit more medical versus kind of the coach. I mean, if you’re looking at the two different levels of it. So I do think, I think that’s amazing that that exists and what a gift to give, not only the person who is the patient, but their, their family, friends, and everyone around them is what, uh, uh, Special special.

That kind of goes 

Missy: back to it. Cindy was saying earlier about in a different time. We would have lived in the community with our 

Susanne: elders 

Missy: and y’all are lucky. I’m not wiping mascara off my face because that almost made me cry because [00:54:00] we are missing that the way our lives are now. And just the way we, the ages we are when we start to have children.

And it’s just, everything is different now in the way we live our lives and where we move in, all of it, we’re just much more mobile, and much more alone and much more alone. And you would have someone to say, this is what death looks like. This is how it’s going to go. And you know, these are the things that could happen.

And a lot of us don’t have somebody in our life to say that now, And so, yeah, it’s just amazing. There are coaches, there’s coaches for everything you need. And I 

Susanne: feel like that’s how 

Missy: we rebuild our community is having a coach to walk us through it. And then maybe we give the gift of passing that knowledge on sometime.

Susanne: Sure. 

Cindy: For sure. Well, the idea of one person heals that it heals the community, but it also heals generations, you know, generations. That’s what we’re talking about here. And you think about the death process. You talked earlier about, you know, you started [00:55:00] peeling back and then like, oh look, there’s more there.

What happens in family units at the time of death? When somebody, um, you know, in the process of dying, right? What happens? Families tend to erupt, right? Unspoken things that had been buried and put away in the closets and it starts tumbling out. Right. Like I, you know, so the idea of having someone there to help a family navigate that.

Susanne: Yeah. And in ed, and then any level of coaching, talk about generationally, you are only going to learn. Wonderful things to live by example, and to pass onto your own kids and to model that behavior and that way of thinking through problems so that I would venture to guess that your goal would be to be able to put all coaches out of business.

Like, so like if people couldn’t handle this on their own, that would be, I know you from a loving place would love for everybody to be able to just kind of handle this on their own. But the fact is even 

Missy: A world,, that’s never happening. [00:56:00] Right. Right. 

Cindy: And the condition of being human, right. Like if there’s always, even if we could, even if we could heal the kind of suffering that people have now, the isolation, the over work stress, like, whatever, whatever that looks like, let’s say we let’s say we could magically feel right then what, right.

The condition of being human, there would be a different level of. Meaning making and, you know, pursuit of pleasure and joy and like, what does that mean? What does that look like? What’s productivity look like in a healthy society, right? Like, I don’t think there is an end to it. Like, it’s not like you’re going to coaching because you’re broken, you’re going to coach and because you’re human, right?

Like it’s a process of evolving , and I think that’s, you know, we talked earlier about the difference between coaching and therapy. Really coaching is based on , the idea of clients. You know, resourceful, they’re creative, they’re whole already, like they don’t need, they don’t, they’re not broken.

Right. And that when you really look at the roots of, of therapy is based on the medical model of like a diagnosis and that there was a, uh, a professional who knew [00:57:00] more and, you know, treated and, and hierarchy, right. The doctor. So, so coaching is just a much more flat level egalitarian. Like we’re all in this together.

We’re all human. We’re all walking the same , messy 

Susanne: path. Right. 

Cindy: And the idea that, I mean, the, one of the things that holds coaches back is a lot of coaches are like, I can’t be a coach until my life is perfect. Right? Like who could I help? And, and really working through that limiting belief, right?

Like the idea that my life has to be perfect in order to ask you thoughtful questions about yours, I’m not judging, right? Like it’s, it’s, it’s all done in a container of empathy and humanness, and my struggles are your struggles wrong on this together.

Susanne: I love it. I feel like that’s a good place to get his tire, bro. I know that does tie above before we tie about , where can people find you? Because you are, , you need some hours, right? You need some people to help finish up that accreditation. So I need it on several levels 

Cindy: because I need the hours, but honestly I needed because, , coaching is the most fun thing I’ve ever done.

[00:58:00] It is my favorite thing when I go through a morning and all I’ve done is, is coach. I get to lunch and I’m like, dude, like I did it. So I think it’s just my favorite thing in the world. So, um, so come hang out with him. Um, I just created my first website ever, which. Was terrifying and scary and fun. And, , it’s my first stab at putting myself publicly out there in the world.

So, , I used inspiration from Susanne who has made a thousand websites and knows all about herself out there. Um, so I’m at Cindy I was able to get my name and little bit of information about me and there’s a contact form , and a let’s chat button. It gets over to my scheduler.

Um, and we can do, oh, there it is. Um, and we can do, uh, I’ve got a 20 minute call where we can just talk and see if it’s a good fit. , it’s not a sales call. Cause I don’t even know what that looks like. Um, I’m just, I just love hanging out with cool people and talking about stuff. If we’re a good fit, then we’ll move forward.

And not right now, I’m doing coaching for 50 bucks an hour. until I get my certification and then we’ll do that. So it’s a good deal. If you’ve been wanting to dip your toe in the water and kind of [00:59:00] check it out, um, I’d love to love to talk to. 

Susanne: That is a good deal. Yeah. 

Missy: I’m like, 

Cindy: Hmm. Maybe 

Susanne: although I can, I kind of trick her into coaching me sometimes over a Starbucks

Cindy: with coffee and stuff does happen.

Susanne: Oh, my gosh. Well, this has been so amazing now. I feel like people have got to know you, uh, you know, around your professional coaching, Cindy, but we’d like to do our look, listen, learns to learn a little bit more about you outside of the professional realm. And I know that you are a listener. So I usually one of us will start just in case the guest has not listened before it’s Europe.

Pro have you been look, listen and learning anything this week, Cindy I have, I 

Cindy: have, and I was, uh, adequately warned and prepared as a listener. [01:00:00] So thank you. Um, it’s funny because we’ve mentioned, , toad lasso many times, and I just feel like that’s such a cultural. Touchdown right now, this show about like positive masculinity and kindness and women supporting each other in this cool way.

You don’t always see on TV. So, um, lately I’ve been calling Ted lasso. Repeat on, repeat my emotional support TV show, like an emotional support animal. Like when I’m feeling like the world is just too much. It’s like, I just go curl up under a blanket with.Ted Lasso, so, so there’s that, that’s my look. Yes. Um, my listen is, , something that actually I really nerd out about is, , we haven’t touched on today, but it’s another pet project of mine is, um, empowering women around money.

Um, I’ve been the CFO of this medical practice for eight years, and I’ve learned a lot about our money stories. Again, this all falls under coaching, but our money stories and our beliefs around money. Um, and there’s a podcast I love listening to , it’s called beginning balance. And it’s by the founder of this [01:01:00] software called you need a budget.

Um, so the beginning balance website is my favorite website to they just nerd out about business money issues, but really it’s all about intentionality with your money, um, whether it’s business or personal and really getting to know your money, being intimate with your money and , knowing your intentions behind what you’re doing with your money.

Um, and as somebody who’s gone from like being terrified of. You know, my modest state salary, I used to have, like that used to be intimidating to me and now running a multi-million dollar business. And now I just, I deal in large amounts of money. I just learned a lot about like how you see your money and like how you relate to it really matters.

So beginning balance is my new podcast crush, and I’ve been doing that. 

Susanne: Oh, I’m totally going to check that out because I know that you talked about that the whole philosophy behind that, the budgeting mentality and having these kind of silos and money for specialty. So nothing’s ever surprised basically.

Cindy: Yeah. The [01:02:00] known unknowns, like we all walk around with our money, like, like you’re never going to need new tires again, like you’re never going to have an air conditioner break. Like of course you are, those are known unknowns. You know, that they’re going to happen. You don’t know when or how much that’s right.

And so we all treat it like it’s an emergency, right? Like, holy shit, my water heater went out. Like, of course your water heater went out. Like, was that a surprise? Um, and, and, and just in shifting our relationship with money from one of being really reactive to proactive about it, but here’s my really exciting one to look, listen, learn.

Here’s what I’m learning about. My family has been selected to be a Nielsen household. So we’re going to get to carry these little, uh, deeper things. And we’re going to get to inform the world of our doing choices. I don’t know, 

Missy: because we did that way back in the dark ages, like, oh my gosh, probably 20.


Cindy: years ago, 

Missy: it was very different. Like you had like a special box, you 

Cindy: put on your TB. I know it’s like, it’s essentially [01:03:00] kind of a pager, like, like a small thing that you kind of keep, you can keep it in your purse or keep it in the kid’s backpack or whatever. And then there’s some devices that are in your house that help tease out.

You know, like if the whole family is watching together, it doesn’t 

Missy: count five times. 


Cindy: don’t know all about it, but, um, I feel weirdly powerful with this. Like, we will be listening to a lot of NPR, 

Susanne: Fox news. 

Cindy: That’s exactly where I’m learning. That’s my learning this week. I’m learning how to be a Nielsen household.

Oh my gosh. 

Susanne: I used to use that data cause I used to be a media planner back in my advertising days and days and yeah. It does come in handy for when you’re trying to decide, like, is anybody actually watching that show? Do I want to pay to advertise there? If no one’s watching it. So yeah, max out on your NPR and just totally will lasso, oh my God. [01:04:00] 

Cindy: That’s right. That’s 

Missy: right. Yeah. We want more Ted lasso in our 

Susanne: lives, content like that had, okay. Missy, what do you look? Listen learning. 

Missy: Well, as I said earlier, there’s only so much a girl can look listen learn. 

Susanne: Yeah. For people who were not around for that part of the conversation.

Uh, it is Tuesday and Missy and I are on our third tomorrow. Um, yeah, we are. We’re trying to front load a bunch of shows so that we’re not recording or, you know, trying to get guests to come, uh, Hey, it’s Thanksgiving and come and chat with us. So we’re already done as of tomorrow, we’ll be done recording for the.

So great, except for Missy and I are going to do some, Ooh, this is part of my look, listen, learn. So I’m not going to talk about it. I’ll talk about it. You talk about your Look, Listen, Learns, Missy. Okay. 

Missy: Um, I won’t talk about it a ton because we’ve already talked about it in the show, but we’ve started only murders in the building based on recommendations.

I think, I think it was your look, 

Susanne: listen is such a cute show [01:05:00] or cute as far as murders go. I mean, it’s 

Missy: adorable murders. Um, but it’s really, it’s great. I started it with mark and it’s hard to find things that were both like all in on. Um, and then I was reminded of another, that we’re about to start, which is kind of like, why don’t you usually look, listen, learn.

But when you were talking about having coaches in an office, I don’t usually talk about things I haven’t watched yet, but the new season of succession is out. Um, and of billions and billions. She kind of operated as a coach at times she would come in. They, people would come in the office. I don’t know. I don’t know where they are.

And billions right now, I can’t remember like where she even works, but both of those shows are coming back and I’m super, super excited, but I think I’ll watch them after November, because November is 

Susanne: bananas. Yes. Everybody needs a coach in succession because they are all a mess. Oh 

Missy: my gosh, there’s such a mess.

And it’s not the normal show. I would like, like [01:06:00] I talked about it here on the podcast, before that I have a little bit of an aversion to power. Those billions in succession are all about power and money and I cannot get enough. So 

Susanne: that’s your alter ego shadow. So 

Missy: like, I love it. I love how dysfunctional they are, how broken all the people are.

And, um, 

Susanne: and I love that they’re 

Missy: employing some coaching principles on their television show. 

Susanne: Okay. I think I’ll wrap it up there. That’s all you got wrap it up there. Okay. So I am looking and listening to the book little Bee oh, by Chris cleave. Have you listened or is this why I’m reading this? Because you think it was, I don’t know.

I feel like someone brought up, but it also is my book club book and book club is next week. Well, I think they just canceled it because they’re just, they’re November-ish, they’re like, Nope. I just realized it’s November. I think can happen until [01:07:00] January. Um, but . I was trying to catch up, so I’m actually listening to it.

And also, so I read it when I’m in bed and I listened to it when I’m driving around, which makes it really hard for word. Yeah. I, I need there to be a feature on the audible or whatever that says. This corresponds to such and such page in the book, because I spent a good portion of my day flipping through trying to figure out exactly where I’m at.

I need to just start, just can stain with one until a chapters done is what I need to do that people will do, but I know that’s not how I do it. So that is what I

also heard that some people actually listen while they read it, which I’ve been kind of tempted to do, um, like literally at the same time. So it’s like having someone read it to you. It’s like, as if you had a little invisible person tucking you in at night and while you’re following [01:08:00] along the words in the book, because I have a really hard time reading.

I don’t know if maybe I have a little touch of either ADHD or I don’t think it’s dyslexia. I just, I don’t know. It’s something with actually reading it. Vision-wise that I have a hard time. I only at night or is that always kind of always, I do a lot better if I’m listening. Like I can remember if you like, say a line from a book.

I can remember like where around the lake I was running when I read that, like I have a really weird, yeah. Reception for like listening to things. That’s probably why I love podcasts so much. And, um, but there are times I will fall asleep in two seconds. If I’m listening to the book, I can actually stay awake a little bit longer if I’m reading it in bed versus listening to it.

Like last night I woke up with my headphones in, I think I made it maybe a minute and it’s like, 

Missy: do you set a timer to 

Susanne: turn it off and to say, do I set the timer for [01:09:00] 15 minutes? And then I back up to see like how far I made it. And it was about a minute

and listen to that. And then I also, as we were talking about, , we have guests pretty much scheduled through, I think like the second week of December that we have that Missy and I really, uh, we’re going to be, gosh, this is the episode we’re running. Yeah. Is the Megan Logan, the self-love workbook for women who you’re going to this 

Missy: episode, by the time you listened to it, it was a couple of days ago.

We ran a couple of 

Susanne: days ago. You’re watching this now. It’s really saying tomorrow. Um, no, not tomorrow, Thursday, Thursday. I haven’t really ahead of it with edits. I’m halfway done editing it. I just had a full panic. I was 

Missy: like, not 

Susanne: tomorrow. Sorry. I’ve been, I’ve been because we’re doing NaNoWriMo. I’m trying to get ahead of things.

So that’s extra time that would have been editing tomorrow. So I’m halfway done editing it and, oh my gosh, I just. Megan Logan. It was so [01:10:00] fantastic. This book is crazy. It’s like number one on Amazon for pretty much any self-help or whatever category. It is like number 80 or 85 in all of them are on like, not just in a category in all of Amazon and doing the book.

Are you working through, we are going to do what we were talking about. We did, we had talked with Megan about doing this to. Poor Megan. I seriously was like almost her marketing director. I was like, she’s like, yeah, I’m thinking of maybe, you know, putting my Instagram back up and we’re like, you guys should be doing this.

You need to be doing this. You usually

like to have my clients. Um, but so yeah, so Megan, I think just, and it’s kind of nice in the fact that she knows what she wants and what she’s comfortable with, and she’s doing exactly what she wants to be doing despite the fact that Missy and I tried to like get a road show of Megan going around, like ashery [01:11:00] media tour, she’s 

Missy: gentle, calming presence.

Susanne: Awesome. But gem after another, you know, she’s like someone invited me to their book club to go over the book and now I’m a member of it

group. So we’ll see if we actually are able to get Megan she’s. When you have number 85, but people are literally, she said, calling her like at home, which is kind of creepy DP. Don’t do that to Megan. She seems very lovely. Um, but 

Cindy: I be you calling her to tell her how to Megan. I had never idea, 

Susanne: oh my God, Portland, I’m like, you need a TEDx.

Do you need this? No, she was just amazing. Um, but so Missy and I were talking about, well, we need to just have an excuse to make sure that we’re actually doing this. Um, so we will probably within our [01:12:00] mom and community on Facebook, We’re trying to not break any copyright laws or disrespect, um, the actual content, but still talk around the topics that are in the book and have some meaningful discussion around that.

I mean, as she said, first of all, the point was made is kind of an interesting story where even though it’s her book, it was for this, whatever the publisher is. I don’t even know rock Ridge press. It looks like they kind of reached out to her and said, we want to do this book. Can we use your knowledge to do it?

So it’s their book. She does not, we’re not pimping her out a sale of this book does not necessarily go to Megan. She has, she has been paid for the work she’s going to do on this book. Um, so she’s not out there trying to Hawk the book, but I can tell you for the amount of information and that you get out of it, it’s like under $10.

Yeah on Amazon. I’m not trying to sell stuff on Amazon. Just go, try to find it on your local [01:13:00] bookseller. Um, but I mean, it’s. I can’t, you can’t even print the book. It’s gorgeous. It’s like full color. You can’t even print it for 10 bucks. So I think it would be worth it if people want to go out and get a copy of the book before December, um, we are planning on doing some of the exercises and talking through some of the exercises.

And so it’ll probably just be a couple episodes there in December that Missy and I record shorter than our usual hour where we just kind of talk

or it might be three hours. We don’t know when it might 

Missy: end up being like a 10 part series 

Susanne: we’re gonna do is we’re just given Megan Logan fan. Boom. Um, we’re gonna have a whole dedicated group now. It’s her in your closet with you, 

Cindy: Megan? 

Susanne: Yes. I already have my pocket person, so I [01:14:00] can’t, she can’t be my pocket person.

So she 

Missy: be my pocket. People who fit in my 

Susanne: pockets. It’s like cargo pants. So yeah, Stacy, Kim is my pocket person. Megan can be my closet person. I don’t know who we’re going to have. Stacy would be great friends. Wouldn’t they? I think all of the coaches we interviewed. Hanging out together, including Sandy.

I’m so excited. You are officially among the truly certified coaches, because even uncertified, you have been a life-changer for me. So I’m so excited to see what you’re going to be able to do for other people. I’m excited for them. I’m excited for you go to Cindy We will have it in the show notes, the link to that.

Um, but yeah. So is there any, any final words for either one of you before we log off? We have gone [01:15:00] once again? No, not finally. 

Cindy: I just wanted to say thank you guys so much for this opportunity. This is the first podcast I’ve ever gotten to do ever. So that’s why I brought my tipsy glass up for a second, because this is super fun.

Uh, Susanne strong armed me into this at the last book reading we went to and I kind of was hoping that. You know, maybe she had had a 

Susanne: couple beers before she and I, and I was like, yeah, sure. 

Cindy: I’ll do it. And she followed up and said, 

Susanne: no, we’re doing 

Cindy: this. And I was like, but thanks. Y’all this has been really, really fun.

And I just, I I’ve loved your podcast. I was such a big deal that you guys got to that 40th episode. I listened to that one while I was power washing my driveway. I had to keep stopping and jumping around because y’all were talking about such cool people and I wanted to go check them out. Um, so y’all had just, I love what y’all are doing has been super fun.

Yeah. To watch from [01:16:00] the sidelines back when this was just an idea or take it around. And I just love it. That you’ve made it happen. It’s it’s helping a lot of women. I know. I send the episodes that you guys have to friends all the time. Um, so, so thanks for having me. This has been 

Susanne: sure. Thank you so much for everything, for friendship and for , letting us be your first podcast, being brave 

Missy: and doing it, like, yes.

Just do it, just do the thing. 

Susanne: Oh, well, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Are you logging us off then? It’ll log 

Missy: us off alive. Everyone. 

Susanne: You, everybody for joining. Bye y’all. [01:17:00]