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April 29, 2022 / Episode 68 – Get Strategic About Your Career Pause with Guest: Emily Stark, Marketable Mama

Show Summary

This week’s episode is all about helping moms get jobs. Emily Stark’s clients are women coming off of a career pause, or looking to make a career change. She helps moms crystalize what they have to offer – and what they want out of – their professional lives, even if they have a significant career gap. In true Mom &… Podcast form, we also go on a few tangents about topics like pandemic dogs, and what will they do when we all go back to work?

More About Emily Stark

Emily Stark, mom and… women’s advocate, yoga-enthusiast, and creator of Marketable Mama.

Marketable Mama supports working and return-to-work moms as they navigate their career journey. She helps women capitalize on the uniqueness of their passions, skills, and families to land fulfilling work. Emily coaches with great emphasis on work life integration, leveraging in-depth trainings as a Certified Life Coach and Certified Fair Play Facilitator.

Emily is certified in Professional Resume Writing and has a Masters in Curriculum and Instruction. She has given career workshops at universities, professional development trainings, and on various working parent platforms.

Emily prioritizes elevating all women and extends this through donations and volunteer work with women in transition throughout San Diego county. When she takes her Marketable Mama hat off, Emily can be found snuggling with her family on the sunny beaches of Southern California or sneaking away to practice yoga. 

Topics From This Episode

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Musical NotesOur delightfully happy intro and outro theme music, “We Will Get Through This” is performed by Young Presidents, and used under license from Shutterstock.

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Mom & … Podcast Transcript Emily Stark Marketable Mama – Career Gaps

Our show transcript is automatically transcribed which can result in some odd, (and sometimes quite hilarious) errors. Please let us know if you have any questions about a sentence that needs a little extra interpretation.

[00:00:00] Missy: Welcome to the mom and dot podcast. I’m Missy Stevens mom and writer, foster care advocate. And today continuing education. Catch her upper I’m a little behind.

[00:00:11] Susanne: and I’m Susanne Kerns mom. And that, that dot writer, LGBTQ and sex ed advocate. And today officially not in menopause. I made it halfway. Is that, is that TMI? I don’t know, but we’ve had a lot of menopause theme guest on and said, I thought you all should have the latest status. It’s clock is officially back at zero.


[00:00:35] Missy: Yeah.

[00:00:35] Susanne: I know.

[00:00:36] Missy: well, today we are welcoming Emily Stark. We’re so excited. You’re here. She is a mom and women’s advocate, yoga enthusiast, and the creator of marketable mama. Her venture marketable mama supports working and return to work moms. As they navigate their career journey. She helps women capitalize on the uniqueness of their passion skills and families to land fulfilling work and Lily coaches with great emphasis on work-life integrate.

Leveraging in depth trainings as a certified life coach and certified fair play facilitator, Emily is certified and professional resume writing and has a master’s in curriculum and instruction. When she takes her marketable mama hat off, Emily can be found snuggling with her family on the sunny beaches of Southern California or sneaking away to practice yoga.

That sounds fabulous.

[00:01:23] Susanne: know, and the beach. Oh, welcome.

[00:01:26] Missy: good.

[00:01:27] Emily: Thank you guys. I’m really happy to be here. That was a great introduction.

[00:01:31] Susanne: Oh

[00:01:32] Missy: feels good to have your bio read. Doesn’t it.

[00:01:34] Susanne: I

[00:01:34] Emily: It does.

[00:01:35] Susanne: we should, we should give ourselves some credit. Well, now, speaking of that bio, so that tells us a little bit of information about you and the career journeys that you help your clients on. But can you tell us a little bit about your own career journey and what led you to start marketable mamma?

[00:01:52] Emily: So, , I went into teaching and was very adamant about wanting to be a teacher.

And, but then, I realized that I just wanted to talk to the students and listen to them and like, know what they were planning on doing. I was in higher ed, so what their next step looked like. And so I found myself too often, not even looking at my curriculum for the day and just sitting and talking to the students.

And so I eventually got into career coaching and then just being a mom, it organically just unfolded. When my friends learned that I was into career coaching, then they would ask me, what do you think I should do about this? What should I do about this? And, um, then it just became a side project, a passion project.

And then when the pandemic hit I was working on an outplacement firm at the time and their work, as you can imagine, really, it was a huge uptick. And then, the side passion project with was really growing too. So I had to make a decision and, you know, my kids are having to, I have a 10 year old and a four year old, there was a, it’s a high demand time, you know, and also like a really cool time for me as an educator and my past, I was really excited to be a part of that with them and not, you know, drop them off.

Wave goodbye, but creates an activities and some learning experiences too. So all that was happening. I just had to let go of the outplacement from, and just really wanting to devote my time to my family and, and grow in marketable mama a little bit more. So that’s how I’ve gotten here. And the last couple of years have, have been really exciting.

I feel like I’m finally, you guys may feel this way too, that after a couple of years you get to a stride and for the first little bit you’re, it’s just, what to do, you know, or what this is going to look like. but I felt like I’m getting to that place now and it feels really good.

[00:03:56] Susanne: Well, yeah, running a business is a whole different skillset than, you

[00:04:01] Missy: we learned a new things just today.

[00:04:04] Susanne: Yes, we do. We learned that we don’t have to file our taxes since our LLC didn’t start until 2022, that took a while to figure that out. I know.

[00:04:14] Emily: One last thing on the

[00:04:15] Susanne: I know I’m going to take a nap this afternoon instead.

I think.

[00:04:19] Missy: I know. I was like, I think I might finish my book. I mean, not the one I’m writing the one I’m reading heaven forbid. Um, so I imagine as this thing, do you say that you are a good listener and that your mom friends used to come and talk to you and say, what do I do? So between that and your work with marketable mama, you get to hear from a lot of different women who are trying to figure out what’s next.

And are there any common threads from your clients or from your friends with these career life struggles and obstacles?

[00:04:48] Emily: Yeah. And it’s with me too. I think I can really empathize with a lot of the women that I speak with and talk to, I had my son totally unplanned. Um, it wasn’t, so I was definitely not ready. And I think when that happens, it throws everything off in your life, a general.

And so, the empathy piece is there, but some threads that I, see a lot with clients, So I’ve found three profiles of women that I work with. They’re not all the same, but I’ve seen some trends there. So one is, uh, women in career pause.

So they have Two months, 12 years, and everywhere in between they have focused on their family and now they’re wanting to, you know, broaden their, or dip back into their professional, sphere of themselves. and then the other is working moms that just need a change. And, that population has really grown in the past year, so that is another Group that I work with. And then the other is Explorer. So working moms or, part-time, or they’re just feeling like there may be, some room in their life to add on something else or, um, kind of going back to the player play and life certification. This group is really, working that angle of my skill set.

So, with the career pause, mom’s some threads that I see with that is, just that, what have I missed? What have I been missing? That kind of idea. Um, so one study that I saw on this was, by the tech Pixies. So this is a group that, as a tech platform for, people that are returning to where they have lots of different things too, but they found that the career confidence is The number one hurdle that

working people are struggling with. And so a lot of my work is unlearning that like, let’s think about what skills that you do have, and really I’d like to, bring some questions and, clear evidence of transferable skills and their value, in the workplace because, I think a lot of people in general, if they’re transferring to a different career sector or, connecting the dots and that is just something that, um, I get my little detective hat on with,

[00:07:16] Susanne: And is there any way to even like, avoid having that confidence, even dip, like if someone knows that they’re going to be taking a break, or is it just a natural part of, you know, going into it, a lifestyle that, you know, you’re not familiar with?

[00:07:31] Emily: Yeah. I think one thing that can be done to avoid that dip in confidence is keeping some focus on your industry. So listening to podcasts that are industry specific, keeping in touch with your, Colleagues, and then also getting on LinkedIn every once in a while.

Um, and it’s, those things are not very time consuming. I don’t feel like they would really pull you away, but, also maybe having some projects that you are working on. So maybe if you were, a graphic designer or something like that, like, making your children’s, party invitations or something like that, and engaging, your interests and professionally, but, kind of twisting it a little bit.

So I think little things like that can help.

[00:08:16] Susanne: I like that.

[00:08:16] Missy: Yeah. I think a lot about the moms who, who either they plan to be a way and they plan to go back in their industry. And at some point realized that’s not going to be the right thing for me. Or perhaps they left the workforce during the pandemic. And like a lot of people over the last two years have thought, I need to do something different, whether it’s because their eyes were opened during the pandemic.

Or I think a lot of people realize time is short. So if they’re in that situation and maybe they have kept up a lot of these skills for their old industry, but they want to move on, like how do you help them start figuring out what’s next and what they have that can go forward and where they need to fill in some gaps.

[00:08:54] Emily: Yeah. I, I like to do, um, a lot of work around, values and, I like to talk about their must haves and that is definitely something that’s in my, first session. What do you want? What do you not want? And then also thinking about their strengths a lot of times, when you take a career pause or just when you take some time reflecting, you still do things that circle around your strengths and you may not even notice it.

So for example, if I was just chatting with this mom not too long ago at my son’s school, that over the pandemic, she’d lost her job, but she stepped into a role with her, daughter’s girl scout troop, and had taken on a very similar role in what she was doing in her last job. And I find that very, very common, but You know your skills, you know, you can do this. And so you just find different places, right. To do this. And then even at home, like if you, in your past, if you were into operations or logistics, you are likely doing something like that in your home too. And so, I think the biggest thing is sitting back and noticing that because I find that more often than not the women that I work with, that it’s like a light bulb than, oh, I didn’t, I didn’t even realize I was doing that or flexing those strengths or, adding value to these groups that I’m a part of and this way.

and then, and also I feel like there’s a lot of links between our strengths and then what’s fulfilling to us. And then also that value system that I was referring to, like they sometimes circle around and swim around the city. Structure within our container, you

[00:10:42] Susanne: And values are one of our favorite things to talk about. And so everybody who brings it up, we like to ask, do you have a favorite values, exercise, or approach that you like to use with your clients to dive

[00:10:55] Emily: Um, Hmm. I think that, because a lot of my work is career focused. I do ask a lot of questions about what are some, what are some trends that you are seeing in your life, maybe that data back to your first job that have been a thread. And what does that say about you and your value system? So for example, if you maybe started you know, your first job when you were 16 or something babysitting or, helping you.

Grandparents with, their small business. What does that say about you and what has stuck with you throughout your, career story or your journey and how does that play into what’s most important to you and what do you want to take of that into your future and your next steps? So, um, a lot of my work is very investigative, you know, like helping and guiding the client to figure out things about themselves that they normally don’t think about were just so buried at, you know, as, as moms, especially, and all of our responsibilities.

and so I think that is the biggest feedback or consistent feedback that I get is. I didn’t know this about myself, you know, or I didn’t notice this about myself. And so I think a lot of it comes at the values and, forward vision comes from just pausing and noticing and, just realizing things about yourself that you don’t see everyday.

[00:12:26] Susanne: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense,

[00:12:28] Missy: So another great case for a coach

[00:12:31] Susanne: I know, cause you, it’s

hard to do that to yourself.

[00:12:34] Missy: yeah. And you need somebody to pull it out. Because if I sit down with a piece of paper, I can’t point out certain things. And so as soon as you hear certain things from your friends or family, and you’re like, oh, I probably am good at that, but it’s really hard still to put words around it and then name it in such a way that it could actually go on your resume.

[00:12:50] Emily: Yeah. Yeah. And the resumes are a really great tool. I love starting out with that because, Tell me about a typical day here. What did you do? What did you, accomplish? And a lot of times you know, um, helping to see who you are in that role.

And, a lot of times, you know, the clients that I work with, haven’t even thought about that and like 10 or 15 years. And so, I just think it’s such cool work to think about, how badass they are, you know,

[00:13:22] Susanne: I liked that.

[00:13:23] Missy: I like that too. And it’s nice to have somebody. I hope that listeners are hearing. That you can go get help with it because the idea of creating a resume in 2022, if you haven’t done it in even three years, but let’s say it’s been closer to 15 years, really daunting. for, so for somebody to pull that stuff out of you and then put it in the modern format is really valuable,

[00:13:46] Susanne: Yes. And, I think that there probably are going to be quite a few listeners who maybe have been out of the workforce for a long time. Like, let me see I myself, who, because of COVID, I mean, a very horrible, tragic, just, I mean, yeah, we can’t say how bad COVID has been, but there are some bright spots in terms of what it has taught companies and workers about how they can get work done.

And, you know, maybe there is an opportunity to, you know, find something that works within your schedule and this new normal, you know, whether it’s work from home or some additional flexibility that companies are willing to offer. I do think that some of us who’ve been out of the workforce for a long time, maybe down even know what we don’t know as far as what are some of those structures that are available.

So what are some of the things that maybe, you know, we should be looking at as a glimmer of hope of like, you know, you could do it this way, or you could do it this way. for people who are considering going back to work.

[00:14:47] Emily: Yeah, I think one thing that I’m seeing a lot of clients they’re looking for is the flexibility piece that you’ve, mentioned. And for a lot of us, it can be, such a concern that if it blocks us from moving forward with getting back into the workforce, because we’re just so fearful.

I mean, and rightly so the past couple of years, it’s just been really, really hard for moms and working or not. And so we’ve collected a really thick, blanket of concern. And so, um, I think one thing that, I’ve read recently that was interesting is since 2019, and this is on LinkedIn, they have found, uh, 343% uptake in.

The searching and use of the word flexibility. And so more companies are seeing that and they’re, they know if we’re going to acquire strong talent, we have to build in this flexibility piece to our work structure. Another thing that I have read is, um, and this was from flex jobs that a large majority of, companies have a flexibility plan, but it’s not clearly defined, what that looks like.

So we, as a, if you’re going back into the workforce, you have an opportunity to write that yourself and to tell your next employer, this is what I need. in terms of my, of what flexibility looks like for me. and articulate that in a way that we weren’t able to do. As freely, I think before the pandemic, because, I know that executives are talking about working moms in, in their board rooms and making decisions and then part of business plans and that wasn’t happening before.

And so, um, that’s evidence and gives us more, backing to really do that. So I think that alone is, a big help, you know, for women that want to look to return to, a professional setting. another piece that is more and more common is building, working parent communities and culture within a workforce.

So, employee resource groups, mentorship, and just more, awareness, for managers to, become more equipped to working with, working parents, all these things are, happening. And so I think that will make the experience for working parents better, you know, than they were beforehand.

[00:17:26] Susanne: Yeah,

[00:17:26] Emily: so I touched a little bit on the what have I missed piece? one thing that I, that, our recommend for, parents that may be thinking about coming back into the workforce has really taken a minute to understand what specifically they need for that position to. back into the workforce because, um, uh, oftentimes it’s a debilitating to think about, I feel so behind, you know, but, if you look at you have the job description or even recruiters are such a great asset, are there the hiring managers?

What specifically do I need to know? and just asking more curated questions, more communication, I think across the board is something that you can do and something that is more welcomed, than beforehand. So, hopefully that will give some less nurses a little bit more optimism

[00:18:16] Susanne: Yeah,

[00:18:17] Emily: um, the, the workforce right now.

[00:18:19] Susanne: it seems to put a little bit more of the power on our side than probably it ever has been for.

[00:18:25] Missy: Yeah. you made me think about that interview process. And so I have a ton of interview anxiety. Like I interviewed a true interview. Once in the last 15 years, I think so I’ve never gotten work through friends of friends, that kind of thing, but really sitting down and having an interview.

And I’m thinking about this in terms of, okay, so we have this great opportunity to go in and say, I need flexibility. And, also I’ve been out of the workforce for all these years, but this is what I can bring to this position. how is that interview going to go? What kind of questions can we expect to get?

And you’ve already touched a little bit on what kind of questions we should be prepared to ask, but what are they going to be asking us when they’re like, so yeah, you were out of work for 15 years and now you’re coming in and saying, you want this perfect, flexible job.

[00:19:14] Emily: 100% of the clients that I work with say the exact same thing that you just said that, interviews are a big source of anxiety for them. So, mock interviews are something that I built into the package and that is probably the number one most, confidence boosting, exercises that we are sessions that we go through.

so I think. That would be something that I recommend before even getting into the interview as doing a mock interview, just especially if you haven’t done it in a while. So you’re in like a really safe zone there’s, feedback, but also support and it, it, oh, and then when you get into the interview state, then it just feels like, okay, it hasn’t been that long.

I don’t have, I’ve kind of dusted off the cobwebs, you know, and, um, um, more competent and comfortable in the seat. but some things to, expect, The interview process has changed. in the last 10 or 15 years, if it’s been that long, oftentimes they are a little bit longer, so and this isn’t with every company, but there’s a vetting, session where it’s a quick kind of 20 to 30 minutes with the hiring manager just to run through a couple of questions.

so there’s that first interview, um, that’s really kind of a quick, like what has happened, you know,

[00:20:36] Missy: Yeah,

[00:20:37] Emily: um,

[00:20:37] Susanne: don’t know that still sounds pretty long.

[00:20:39] Missy: I know. I know, but I guess that’s just the, are they going to even potentially be a fit for us kind of interview? Yeah.

[00:20:47] Susanne: Makes sense.

[00:20:48] Emily: And then the second is, with a hiring manager and then the third, maybe with the team or something like that. Um, so, where they were, a while ago, maybe just that one middle, what the hiring manager, maybe they would have that you would go on a tour around the office or something afterwards. Now it’s broken down into three.

Um, another, kind of interview trend is, to show some type of, work or example, So even, my second to last position, I was asked to do a quick presentation and do some research and things like that. So that’s not abnormal now. So one thing that I work with clients on is, how can you go above and beyond this assignment?

How can you really show, the company that you have done your research? So little things like if you build out a, uh, presentation or something using colors and their kind of their brand, you know, that’s just one little thing that you can do. so that’s, Edition that has, that has happened in the interview process just those three things and that awareness, just getting ahead of it.

and knowing that that may be coming, is helpful to know. And I think helps, maybe someone that hasn’t been in, in awhile just to get a clear picture of what that might look like.

[00:22:08] Missy: because it’s, I mean the whole process must take quite a bit longer. It’s not like you might go sit down and have a chat and the next day they call and say you’re in, is kind of how we used to do it.

[00:22:18] Susanne: yes. Or sometimes during the actual

[00:22:20] Missy: Yeah. Yeah. When can you start?

[00:22:22] Susanne: Yeah. Back in the time, it was a

[00:22:25] Missy: I was asked, I want to say. Oh, this was a long time ago before I had kids. It was a long time ago. Um, had to amend at least 20 years, but I was asked to do a PR a big project, basically plan an entire fundraising event. And they wanted me to do it in something like 36 hours. It was insane. And, to me at that point, that was a huge red flag because I thought I don’t have, like, I was currently working and I was like, I don’t have the next 36 hours to create an entire fundraising event.

It just, to me, bells went off about their culture that I was like, I’m not going to like it here. And so I just told them I’m not going to do that step. I don’t think we’re a fit. Thank you. But no, thank you. and they were really offended that I wouldn’t do that step as well.

[00:23:07] Susanne: yeah, they probably wanted to plan.

[00:23:09] Missy: Well, that’s, I was like, well, like what if I do this?

And I don’t get hired. but yeah, I think they did want somebody to do this event for free. That’s basically what they were after. It was not good. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s good to know that now there is some sort of structure and expectation in place that people are doing this. Like, if I went into it knowing I might have to do that, it would be,

[00:23:31] Susanne: seem so out of left field.

[00:23:34] Missy: was way out of left field. Back in the 1990s,

[00:23:38] Emily: yeah. And 30, 36 hours. That is, that is

[00:23:42] Missy: was really

[00:23:42] Emily: commitment.

[00:23:43] Missy: and it was the holidays too. It was going to be like due on December 24th or something insane. I was like also I have company.

[00:23:53] Susanne: no, thank you. Oh my

[00:23:56] Emily: kids. No presence this year. I had to do a 36 hour fundraiser and

[00:24:01] Missy: Yeah. All my alarm bells were going off. I was like, I think working to these people might not go well.

[00:24:06] Susanne: Oh, uh, both interview wise and resume wise, it does seem like another silver lining of COVID is that maybe there is a little more understanding about why people do have career gaps, maybe not necessarily 15 years, but, um,

[00:24:21] Missy: Cannot

[00:24:22] Susanne: know, that there, that there are gaps. So how do people, address those on their resume or if it comes up in the interview, is that one of those things that you just acknowledge and move on or do, you belabor the point?

How, what are your recommendations there?

[00:24:37] Emily: Well, I think, LinkedIn added an option on your, profile. something to show that there is, I

[00:24:46] Susanne: Like a homemaker? I can’t remember what it was, but yeah, there’s a specific term for it.

[00:24:50] Emily: Right. So I think there’s definitely more, like you said, there’s definitely more awareness and, for your interview and then also for your resume, the most important thing is to continue to build out a whole story of your career.

What we don’t want to do is, have the, person that is reading your resume question, what’s happening here or, or not no, of some things that you have been doing that could be useful. so I just, really work with moms to figure out some things that they have been doing, the transferable skills, um, a lot of the women that I’ve worked with have done such impactful work with the PTA.

And I think that that should definitely be on your resume. but also, things just day-to-day, the demands and the work of motherhood that is valuable too. Um, but like for you guys to all the work that goes into a podcast the marketing for that, there are so many different like channels.

So I think another important thing, so number one, the career, just building out a crystal story, but also number two, thinking about what have I done in this project, that I might likely do in my next role or that the hiring manager might want to see. So, um, just maybe even going through the job description of a position that you’re interested in applying for and seeing some overlaps there and being able to speak to those overlaps in an interview, I think is, definitely something that needs, to happen and should be the focus point rather than, oh, I wasn’t officially with a company for X amount of years thinking more about what have I done that will continue to add value.

Yeah. And then, and also the career summary, both in your LinkedIn and in your resume, that’s a really great way to bring it all together and have it at the top of your resume. And so it’s kind of like the book jacket almost of your, career story and having that really clean. Um, the process of building that out, but then also have none of that at the top.

[00:26:58] Susanne: I love that.

[00:26:59] Emily: yeah.

[00:26:59] Susanne: And so for, for some, some moms who maybe still are at home and are not envisioning going back to work anytime soon, but both for the idea of wanting to make this story compelling someday, and also just for their own sanity of doing some things. When they’re at home that are engaging, you know, different parts of their brain outside of just, you know, quote unquote mom’s stuff, what are, some tips for things that they can do to explore it and try to even figure out what some of their interests are, but then also any tips for, you know, getting buy in from, you know, family, you know, getting, if it’s a matter of needing to find some kind of childcare swap with friends or whatever, to any creative solutions for making that even a possibility.

[00:27:44] Emily: Yeah. two books that come to mind that would be my first stop and figuring out, uh, a passion project. If you’re feeling like you just want something is one is the artist’s way. Um, that one is just so good and I love that there’s the journaling piece too. And the questions with each one, I mean, just taking a year of your life and just like letting that soak in.

And, I think is I don’t know, a project within itself that would be really fulfilling, you know? Um, another one is a unicorn space. Um, it’s the same writer that wrote the, the fair play book.

[00:28:29] Susanne: And what was that again?

[00:28:30] Emily: Eve, Eve Rodsky, um,

[00:28:33] Missy: Okay.

[00:28:33] Emily: the unicorn space. It just came out. So it’s pretty, pretty fresh, but, um,

[00:28:39] Missy: I just love the title.

[00:28:41] Susanne: know.

[00:28:43] Emily: Yes. So, um, the Fairplay, method that I’m certified in is all about, more equity in the home And so she really looks at the home systematically. And so go into your, kind of sub-question of how to orchestrate more time in your life to have to do some stuff for your heart, work for yourself, you know, the passion projects that is a good first step to figure out, how to do that. And, some work with my clients.

I help them with that because returning to work shuffles things around at home, right. So maybe if you have been doing a lot of the. invisible labor at home. and then you returned to work. It can often preclude, a person from doing the things that they want to do, because they’re so overwhelmed, like who will do the dishes?

I don’t even know like what will happen or the lawns, you know? and so that is a really good first step is that, is that boat. And then unicorn space is what is, uh, system and exploring, the passion projects that come from more equity in the home and giving yourself more space

[00:29:55] Susanne: Oh, my gosh,

[00:29:56] Emily: those.


[00:29:56] Susanne: I need to read this immediately. I know I had to laugh. As soon as she said, I’ve got some books. I heard your pin click. I’m going to see. I was like,

[00:30:08] Missy: Yeah. I was like, here I go. I am writing. Uh, I love that. And I love that you bring up how the home shifts. I think that’s a really important topic and that, uh, we are pushing it today. I don’t have time to dive all the way into it, but I think it’s really important for women to consider that. And then if they’ve been home, all parents need to look at what is going on in their home right now and how that’s going to change.

And I remember when I took on it, it was a contract, but it was going to be around 20 hours a week at times. And my kids were little. I thought they wouldn’t say a thing when I said, oh, I’m going to be, it was a really cool place. I was doing this contract with. And I was like, this place is awesome. I’m going to work about 20 hours a week with them.

My kids went, what about us? Like, you’re going to be fine. They did I, how we had to think through it. We had to look at, and they, they realized ultimately they had no idea when I was working when I wasn’t. I did it all. When they were at school, their life didn’t change at all. but their first thought was, oh, no.

And I’m sure my husband’s first thought was like, Ooh, that’s gonna be, because I wasn’t, I was going to be working there some of the time too, instead of just at home all the time. And it was a shift in our life. So you do need to think about what do things look like? Who is going to start the laundry on Tuesday?

If now you’re not here on Tuesday.

[00:31:22] Susanne: Yeah, I think we’re going to need to have a pet therapist on when people go back to work and talk about, I think the pets are going to be the ones who are really freaking out because people are like, wait a minute.

[00:31:34] Missy: I mean, almost all the time somebody is home at our house.

[00:31:37] Susanne: I

[00:31:37] Missy: mark works here. I work here for a long time. Nobody went to school. Yeah.

[00:31:43] Susanne: my gosh, they’re going to be so sad. Pet therapy. I tell you that’s going to be the new trending career. Tell that to your clients.

[00:31:50] Missy: I didn’t tell my kids. I wasn’t

[00:31:53] Emily: Okay.

[00:31:54] Susanne: They’re going to be a wreck. Oh my goodness.

[00:31:58] Missy: so true. Lots of pandemic dogs were adopted. It’d be like, what the hell?

[00:32:02] Susanne: never known a life without everybody around. Well, I guess the kids have gone back to school, but even that was a little shocking. The dogs were

[00:32:09] Missy: Oh, it was really shocking at our house. We had one who just would like check the rooms, you know, he’d pace for a little while. And then eventually be like, I guess it took a while.

[00:32:19] Susanne: I’ve lost the children. Oh, well,

[00:32:22] Missy: Yeah. He paid him. Like he, you could tell he was worried and wanted us to be worried. And we were like, there we’re good. They’re going to come home later. It’s all fine. But there was a little bit of pacing, whereas our older dog was like, see you later, kids have a great life.

[00:32:36] Susanne: I told you we could go on some tangents, but before we go too far before the look, listen, learn, want to make sure people know where to find you and get information about you. And do you do as seminars or group things? Are you primarily one-on-one.

[00:32:51] Emily: Yeah, I am primarily one-on-one. I just I’ve thought about that, but I just, every mom is so unique and, that’s very important for me to just, customize and cater to what they need. Um, so, you can find more about me at, on our website. It’s, uh, WWE marketable, hyphen And then I’m also on Instagram and LinkedIn.

And those are probably the top three spots that I’m circling around. And I try not to do too many things cause it’s, that can become a, job within itself. All of the channels.

[00:33:34] Susanne: Oh yes. And we’ll have links to all of those and there’s show notes just in case anybody. Didn’t get to jot that down. Didn’t hear the click of the pen.

[00:33:44] Missy: Yeah. Or if they’re driving, maybe they’re driving or walking or something.

[00:33:47] Susanne: All right. Are you ready for some look, listen, learns?

[00:33:50] Missy: Yes. So our look, listen, learns if you’re listening for the first time or a time for us to share something outside of our normal scope, that’s something we’re reading, watching, listening, to buying whatever the case may be. Favorite product. Sometimes they’re super helpful and you learn a lot and sometimes it’s fluff city.

You never know what you’re going to get. Um, and we don’t like to make our guests go first. So, Susanne, what are you look listening, learning this week?

[00:34:16] Susanne: Okay. my learn is a tribute to my mother.

[00:34:20] Missy: Um,

[00:34:21] Susanne: uh, kind of we’ll wait till you hear it. Uh, she would always come back from her doctor’s appointments or whatever, and complain, like, why do you come away from the doctor’s appointment with this lab slip to go get a bunch of tests done, especially like I’ve had my thyroid disorders since college, I’ve had my cholesterol issues at the same amount of time, and I always get the same thing, but they usually send you after the doctor’s appointment with this slip to go get your blood drawn.

And she’s like, why don’t they do that? Like the month before or a couple of weeks before, so it’s ready and you actually have something to talk about. And for the longest time she would complain about it and I would roll my eyes. I’d be like, it’s just the way it is mom. But then as I was thinking about it more and more, I was like, that makes total sense.

So I just did that for my most recent doctor’s appointment. I ordered the labs and I even said like, this is what I usually get. I made it really easy for them. and sure enough, they did it. The results came back like Thursday, Friday, last week. And I had my appointment on Monday and we actually had.

Meaningful conversations about what it said. and it actually talked me down a little off the ledge too, because I also encourage you not to read your own lab reports.

[00:35:29] Missy: that’s bad.

[00:35:30] Susanne: made the mistake of emailing them to me. And I was like, oh my God, I’m dying my co my cholesterol is bad and I’m on medication and it’s still bad, but literally I got the results as we were driving to Whataburger was like chicken sandwich and

[00:35:48] Missy: That’s awesome. That’s a really great timing.

[00:35:51] Susanne: that was so I was like, okay, I’m going to just, I’m not going to read too much into it, except for the fact that I did order that Mediterranean cookbook, as soon as I got it. Um, so yes, but I just think if that is something that would make sense for you, obviously, you know, if they find something new when you’re in the doctor’s, they’ll send you to go get further information about that.

But if, if you are always getting. certain blood things tested, do it before your doctors appointment or suggest it to your doctor for next time, because it really was probably the best doctor’s appointment I’ve ever had. Cause we had something to talk about besides, well, what if this and what if this so highly recommend?

Good job, mom, I’m sorry. I rolled my eyes at you. And I know I didn’t do that. Well, I’m still 16 at heart

[00:36:36] Missy: Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:38] Susanne: and let’s see my listen you’re college bound kid, which is a podcast. And my favorite part about it is that it’s even longer than our podcast, Missy, which we have a hard time keeping it under an hour.

Most of those are around two hours. Some of them are even more so you gotta be ready to deep dive. Like they have entire segments of it. It’s like, yeah. but it’s really deep dives into pretty much every subject that you can imagine around. Your kids go into college, obviously. And then there’s another one called the high school hamster wheel that I really like.

And there are unlimited numbers of podcasts that you can listen to. But I have found those to just be, I don’t know, they’re all really great information. These two just kind of fit. I don’t know. It just, it just felt right. So these are two that I would highly recommend starting with because next week, spring break, we are back to back New York, Providence.

Where else am I going? Oh, we’re stopping by Yale. Just for fun. We’re good to her yell.

[00:37:37] Missy: You never know.

[00:37:39] Susanne: You never know. You never know. They might really be short on art student from Texas and yes. So you never know what the quota they’re trying to hit. So since we’re driving through it, we’re like we’re going to stop in there for lunch.

Might as well do it to her. Um, so yeah, we’re going to be doing that. So, yeah, I’m putting as much of the actual work on my daughter. I’m following Julie Lythcott Haims. I’m trying not to like be the umbrella parent that shows up at my kids’ college interviews. Um, but I’m also want to be really


[00:38:14] Missy: Facebook groups, there’s like moms groups

for the college. And they’re worried about like finding their kids, friends and roommates, and like, like, so it was one that was like, who will get my child up in the morning? Like

[00:38:29] Susanne: who’s been getting your child up.

[00:38:34] Missy: I never have,

[00:38:35] Susanne: Oh my God. That’s

[00:38:36] Missy: they’re more likely to get me up mornings are not my


[00:38:39] Susanne: Oh no. Sam has the check come and get me in the morning. Oh, whoops. I’m not usually supposed to say his name. My son has to come get me up in the morning and yeah, let me know he’s leaving, but yeah. So I highly recommend am I not been looking at anything? I’m sure I have. I just don’t know.

[00:38:55] Missy: I got it. How about you, Emily?

[00:38:58] Emily: okay. So I had, I was really excited about this assignment. Um, and I wanted to kind of have the same things as that I was bringing into the conversation too. so the first thing is, um, art museums are really important to me, but I never felt like I can squeeze them in or go with the kids. It’s just, and it’s something that has really bucked me that I just feel like I can’t do something that I really enjoy doing.

So I went to a used bookstore. I bought a really thick art book with lots of pages and I sat on my couch and I looked at the art book with a glass of wine. And it was like, I was at the art museum and my kids would kind of circle around notice. But I was looking at ask me questions. We had these really cool conversations about, different paintings and. Better

[00:39:50] Susanne: Oh,

[00:39:50] Emily: cause I was sitting on my couch. Um, so anyway. Yeah.

[00:39:54] Susanne: And maybe gives them a little more excited about the next time you do drag them to a museum. Now that there’s get folded into love that.

[00:40:01] Emily: Yeah, but it just made me think, what else have I been telling myself that I can’t do, but you know, and that I can like customize. So anyway, that was, um, really interesting.

[00:40:13] Susanne: you done any virtual tours of museums? There’s a lot, I think now that you can actually do virtual tours, if you feel like taking things next level, then you can,

[00:40:23] Missy: Yeah,

[00:40:24] Susanne: if you’d have to get off the couch, maybe, but

[00:40:27] Emily: that is a good idea. I’ll definitely check that out. Especially for ones that are away from where I, you know, like the MoMA or something like that. but So a book that I was thinking about as how Eskimos keep their babies warm. Have you guys heard of that book?

[00:40:45] Missy: no, and again, I love just the title.

[00:40:47] Susanne: I know exactly.

[00:40:49] Emily: so I’ve been thinking about just wanting to build more, worldwide connection, I think, with everything going on. and so this book is really, uh, it shows motherhood and different cultures, different countries. and so it’s just a really, if you’re yearning for that same wanting to be connected to something maybe bigger than yourself, or like shift your perspectives about motherhood.

that book is, is really special. So I think that’d be a timely.

[00:41:18] Susanne: sounds amazing. And I do think, I do think that mothers have the ability to really turn the world around. I mean, once you do find that unifying thread that holds us all together, I mean, just everybody wants their babies to be safe and to be happy and healthy and.

[00:41:37] Missy: And warm.

[00:41:38] Susanne: And warm and more like the Eskimo once.


[00:41:42] Missy: just sounds like an

amazing mother’s day

[00:41:44] Susanne: See,

[00:41:45] Emily: given it to a few friends for, um, baby showers. It’s a good cause.

[00:41:49] Missy: good idea too.

Alright, so everybody go get how Eskimos keep their babies warm for mother’s day gifts.

[00:41:56] Susanne: Yes. I love that.

[00:41:59] Emily: so one thing that I’ve been doing on podcast, I tend to circle around on, the same, batch that I really like. And I know if I listen, it’ll trigger something. So I’ve been actively. Going out of the box. and going more towards like my interests rather than mom’s stuff, or, um, and that’s one thing kind of piggybacking on what we were talking about earlier way to, do something outside of those spheres of yourself.

anyway, I’ve been listening to like art and design, podcast, animal podcast, history kind of things. Just like completely not getting into the same podcast that I usually listen to. but I have to actively do it so tempting, like to go to my normal queue. So

[00:42:46] Missy: sure.

[00:42:47] Susanne: Now that is

[00:42:48] Missy: a

time and a place for that too, that you just want, whatever is your comfort listening. but yeah. Yeah, that’s a great tip too, to like actively search for things that might peak your interest.

[00:42:58] Susanne: Yes. Love that.

[00:43:00] Emily: I want to hear yours Misty.

[00:43:02] Missy: All

[00:43:02] Susanne: what are you? Look, listen, learn. And.

[00:43:04] Missy: All right. So speaking of new podcasts, I found a new one. That’s not new. I think it’s been out at least a couple of years, but it’s called a slight change of plans with Maya Shanker. So good. So good. It’s from Pushkin podcasts and she’s amazing. Do y’all know who she is?

[00:43:18] Susanne: I just because you send the episodes to me and

[00:43:21] Missy: Yeah, I said, yeah.

I said, Susanne said, we’re like, we had to have this person on. Um, so she’s a cognitive scientist, so already, like, I just love her, she trained at, um, Stanford, Oxford and Yale. So

[00:43:33] Susanne: smarty pants,

[00:43:35] Missy: Yeah. Total smarty pants

[00:43:36] Susanne: I’ll go visit her at Yale.

[00:43:38] Missy: Yeah. Yeah. And she was an advisor in the Obama white house and has had this really interesting career.

And the podcast, she talks to people just about big changes that happen, famous people, regular people, anytime they’ve had some sort of big pivot or change in their lives. And then she talks to scientists as well about some of the stuff that goes on behind that. highly recommended. Can I recommend it enough?

I love her voice. I love all of it. So that’s a good one. And, um, my watching this week is dumb. I’ve been watching there’s a new law and order that y’all know that.

[00:44:09] Emily: Did done right. Is

[00:44:13] Missy: Yes,

[00:44:13] Susanne: Good

[00:44:14] Missy: like this, this sound like does that, like it is, I have watched law and order pretty much since the beginning probably, which I was probably too young to be watching it. I don’t know. I love it. And some of the old characters are back and it’s just, anyway, there’s, I’ve, maybe I’ve watched one and a half episodes, I think.

I don’t know how many there are yet.

[00:44:35] Susanne: I don’t think I’ve ever watched a single episode of law and order. I know. Am I missing out?

[00:44:41] Missy: uh, I’ve watched at least some of, all of the spinoffs, not all of them stock and not all of them were my favorite, but, um,


watched a

[00:44:49] Emily: long has it been on? It’s been a spin

[00:44:52] Missy: Oh

[00:44:52] Emily: for a very long time.

[00:44:54] Missy: Yeah. The original law and order was, I think Grey’s anatomy has outrun them now, but it was like the longest running I’m telling this all wrong.

Probably, maybe it’s SVU. That’s the longest running procedural drama. but in the original women’s on. I can’t, I can’t think of a time in my life. I wasn’t watching it. I’m not sure when it first started. And then this is actually a reboot of the original law and order. So not SVU or criminal intent or any of the others, or, it’s a reboot of the original law and order and it’s kind of casting kind of funny.

Some of it’s kind of funny. I don’t think it’s supposed to be funny, but, um, I still, I just love it for nostalgia purposes. Mark was laughing at me cause I, when I was folding laundry and like, it was my wind down time and he was like, are you winding down with law and order? And I’m like better than a murder podcast, better than a murder podcast.


[00:45:44] Susanne: but it is a little comforting people you’re familiar with. It’s kind of like how my husband watches west wing, like once a year watches the whole series. So yeah.

[00:45:54] Missy: yes. I mean, it’s total, I’m a law and order geek, like multiple times we’ve been in New York and. I happened upon filming so much fun because they’re filming on the streets and marks like a normal person would just be like, oh cool. And I make him stand and wait and watch, you know, like, who are we going to see?

It’s my dream to run into iced tea on the street. And I have

[00:46:13] Susanne: Ooh, maybe there’ll be filming when I’m there next week.

[00:46:15] Missy: Yeah. You look, if you are walking along, especially if you’re down in that area and you start to see a bunch of cords taped on the street, something is being filmed


[00:46:24] Susanne: the court. I’ll send the kids one direction. I’ll go one direction until we find where the cord leads to.

[00:46:29] Missy: mark is like, oh shit, she’s hot chords. I’m sure. He’s like, let’s go. And I’m like, ah, TV is happening around here. Something is happening. We’re going, we are going straight to the courthouse

[00:46:40] Susanne: Oh my

[00:46:41] Missy: I made him stay in there before and we saw them filming a scene.

[00:46:44] Susanne: If I ever tried to kidnap you, I’m going to know how to lure you into the back of my car.

[00:46:49] Missy: Totally. I will


[00:46:50] Susanne: going to put a cord in there.

[00:46:51] Missy: Yeah. Come straight to your van to see what TV show you’re filming. So.

[00:46:57] Susanne: law and order on the back.

[00:46:59] Missy: Totally. I see this way. Um,

that ridiculousness aside, what I’m learning is everything I need to know about having a new driver in the house. So by the time this episode runs, we’ll be old hat at it. But as I’m recording, we will officially have a licensed driver next week.

[00:47:23] Susanne: Oh my God. I think Zoe may get married before she gets her driver’s license.

[00:47:28] Missy: Yeah. She’s just not interested,

[00:47:29] Susanne: She has had that permit for two years. She has zero interest. I said, this is why you’re looking at New York. Aren’t you? Because you never have one.

[00:47:38] Missy: You don’t have to drive. Yeah. Oh my God. My kiddo cannot wait. He’s like, I’m just going to go places. I don’t know which places I’m just going. Places like cannot wait. So we had to sit down the

[00:47:48] Susanne: Come pick up Zoe.

[00:47:51] Missy: can you take Zoe to school? But yeah, we had to go through the rules of like our house rules and then remind him what is legally.

Okay. There’s all kinds of rules for new drivers and, you know, and talk about where we expected him to drive at this point. Cause it’s like, you can’t we’re not just setting you free

because we’re going to have to earn some trust and you’re going to have to, like right now, we’re going to go to school and practice and home and in our, in our little bubble and then we’ll branch out of our bubble.

So don’t come walking in the door one weekend and go, can I drive to the neighboring town? Cause no, it’s not going to happen.

[00:48:23] Susanne: go to San Antonio.

[00:48:25] Missy: yeah, not happening. I pulled that in high school, my girlfriends and I grew up in Austin and we said, can we drive to San Antonio? We wanted to go to the river walk. And our parents were like, uh, no, you’re 17 and you don’t know what you don’t know.

So we said, can we go to new Braunfels, which is about halfway. And like there’s a little town called green and there’s a little shopping and stuff. They said, yes. Do I still give my mom credit about all the

[00:48:52] Susanne: Oh, no, that’s totally good. Yeah.

[00:48:54] Missy: good. But the craziest thing is we just went to new Braunfels and green and came home.

Like we were supposed to, cause this was before they could attract us. We could have gone to San Antonio, like, but we just did what we were supposed to and came home. And it was a different town than, I mean, we drove up and down MoPac and went downtown and went to sixth street and went all kinds of places

[00:49:16] Susanne: that’s what I want for her. I want her to go find things, but

[00:49:21] Missy: yeah, go do things.

[00:49:22] Emily: What is the while they’re on friends being able to ride with a new driver cause, um,

[00:49:31] Missy: one kid. Who’s not a family member,

[00:49:33] Susanne: Mm.

[00:49:33] Emily: okay. Okay.

[00:49:35] Missy: which I mean, they, they break it. I mean, I know they break it. I haven’t seen lots of kids doing it, but under 18 it’s one kid who is not a family member. And we have said that is our house rule as well. The rule of law. And, um,

[00:49:49] Susanne: As though he wanted a ride from pinballs the other night at like 11 o’clock. I was like, oh, let’s break the law. Can’t one of your friends drive

[00:49:57] Missy: Right. It’s been really hard

[00:49:59] Susanne: I know that’s a good

[00:50:00] Missy: where I’m like, oh, you’d like, I don’t want to wait at the pool to take you from the pool to school. Like, can’t you get in the car? But then I found out at one point that he was getting in the car, four other boys. Now one, he was riding with an 18 year old at one point, but one of these kids is not 18 quite yet.

And he was like, he’s a really safe driver mom. And first of all, no, he’s not like there’s, I’m sorry. None of you are like, you’re all kids. I don’t care how safe you think he is. He’s a 17 year old boy. No. but yeah, like, but it’s against the law. I’m like, you don’t want him to get in trouble.

[00:50:33] Susanne: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. We need to start going to practice driving though. Cause yeah, she’s going to graduate and move on and not have done my responsibility, teaching

[00:50:43] Missy: It’s easier when they really want it. Like he really wants it. So there was no having to push this, you know, he’s

[00:50:49] Susanne: I need you to stop driving her places is what the thing is.

[00:50:52] Missy: right.

[00:50:54] Susanne: If you’re listening to the Zoe,

[00:50:55] Missy: Your ride is ending no more free rides.

[00:50:58] Susanne: of course, you’ll be listening to this in two months. So maybe by then. Well, we’ll see. We’ll see if by the time this airs.

[00:51:04] Missy: You should just make her pay. You like Uber and you can have surge fees. Like surge rates. You be like 1130 on a Saturday night is expensive friends.

[00:51:12] Susanne: yes. Okay. I like where you’re going with this. I like where you’re going with this.

[00:51:17] Missy: Money talks in our house. I got to say, kids are like, oh, I wanted that. But if I have to buy it, I don’t, I don’t want it.

[00:51:23] Susanne: Oh, my goodness. Okay. That’s I think that’s your look, listen and learn. Is that right?

[00:51:29] Missy: I know I had three today. That’s

[00:51:31] Susanne: But you’ve had a very full week. I’m impressed. Oh my goodness. Well, this has been so, and I, you know what, I don’t know. I, part of me is like, oh, having an income would be nice, especially as we’re talking about doing college and stuff.

And I do, I, I’m still kind of mentally getting over my own hurdles of what that means for my own life. But as far as what my hurdles were thinking that, oh, I’m not qualified or, oh, you know, this career gaps going to hold me back. I really do feel like, no, I feel like I would feel a lot better post COVID going in and interviewing and looking at jobs.

Um, that being said, there might be a lot of people who feel more confident and then, you know, that gets a little tighter as, uh, Is it harder to get those jobs, but I do think that it’s the best time in a long time for people who have been out of the workforce and are thinking about going back to work to consider it and ask for the flexibility and things that they want.

Um, the worst they can say is no.

[00:52:33] Missy: And hire somebody like Emily to help you with your LinkedIn and your resume and your interview skills, because it’s in there, it’s all in you. We just need to get it out.

[00:52:42] Emily: Yes. One thing I’ll leave on that is, full-time work is not the only option. I just did a talk on nine work options. Every parent should know. there are so many options. I’ll run down them just real quick while we are leaving a full-time part-time, returnship job share temporary work contract, work portfolio, freelance and consulting.

So the, the career world is your oyster and you can bend it and make it what you need it to be.

[00:53:12] Missy: I love

[00:53:14] Susanne: That is the perfect thing to leave it on. Yeah. Mike, Mike drop for Emily.

[00:53:18] Missy: Yeah.

[00:53:20] Susanne: I love it. Oh, well this has been so awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Really, really appreciate it. It’s been so fun getting to know you and we’ll hope to have you back soon.

[00:53:31] Emily: Thank you. Thank you guys. Have a great day.

[00:53:34] Susanne: Thank you. Bye-bye